farming question

J

JDBLU

New member
I was reading on another state's forum about wheat stubble and how it holds birds and there were comments on if it has more weeds it holds more birds which is pretty obvious. It started me thinking of why nowadays you drive through farm country after harvest and the fields are shorter than my lawn. I'm assuming it has to do with no till? So that leads to my question....why is it so important to be weed free in corn? I can see in soybeans that it may be more of a problem, but do weeds really pose that much of an issue in corn production? Does it affect the yield that much or does it hinder when combining??? When I was a kid they use to let the stubble stand and it was a lot taller, what would it hurt to let stubble stand and mow it off early spring before planting season (other than taking the gamble on the weather)?

With Pheasant hunting being such a big industry to South Dakota what if they came up with a farming plan that subsidizes farmers for not using roundup and letting stubble stand instead of offering CRP money... just a thought...I know you guys are having a summit with the Governor, maybe something to kick around.
 
Farmers spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on weed control. Let the weeds go to seed one year and your screwed and forced to spend more in the next ten years then what a few pheasants are worth.
 
Let weeds take your corn and you won't be farming long. Weeks in corn cut yield dramatically. There isn't enough money to pay most farmers to let weeds grow. I don't work any of my stubble, but I also spray it to keep it clean. You can shoot phez in clean wheat stubble, it has been some of my best hunting the last few year.
 
After more thought about this I realize it really wouldn't help much in the long run anyhow. It really wouldn't benefit numbers because you aren't providing nesting or habitat year round, plus I can see how weeds would really affect no-till vs. plowing.

It just irks the hell out me to see such bare fields with no hedgerows and no cover for any wildlife. I admit I don't know much about farming, especially for being surrounded by farmland, but know enough that the business is almost as much of a gamble as the casinos with the weather and the market, and can't blame the farmers for making the most out of their investments but it sure is depressing to see those flat ass fields all winter long.
 
I do not buy idea that you have to spay wheat stubble or you will have a weed take over the next year. Fields get spayed every growing season anyway. I could see it years ago when you used cultivation instead of spay, but not today.
 
before chemicals, I remember weedy corn and milo fields were the norm...no one went out of business back then.
 
We used to have the theory that alternate row farming kept the soil where it was, each alternate rows was left in old wheat stubble, 30-40 feet,with weeds to hold moisture and, as stated saved top soil. This was a way of life in eastern Colorado, western third of Kansas, a little bit of Oklahoma, NE New Mexico, and the Texas panhandle. Because the "bright minds" of agriculture, have determined that you can grow more crop, because, we are so much more experienced than in the thirties, with no-till, we don't have to. Then there's this BIG drought, ground starts blowing, crop yields minimal, land prices paid can not be justified, or at least serviced without with crop insurance. We irrigate more, out of a decreasing supply, increase population of plants per acre to recover, farm every strip on every acre, use chemicals which are becoming assimilated in target weeds, and posioning out the depleted water source, because it will be better tomorrow. Meanwhile the world changed, export demand is being met by foreign companies in foreign lands, While our corporations sell off our machinery and technology, trialed by our land grant universities, crop comodity prices fall, even with small yields and ever high cost of production. Sound familiar? Ought sound scary. What do we about it? We made and believe the system we have, now prisoners on the treadmill wheel. I realize farmers believe cash flow is the key, if they can maintain their debt payment, not retained earning, retained earning are next years goal, meanwhile we erode the net equity each year. Without the fantasy of increased land values, which is allusionary, and will not be bankable in the end. I know ground keeps going up! there isn't anymore of it! It has done this before, with castrophic results.
 
Ive talked to a few guys here in central Ohio that said this was their last year of roundup ready crops. Its $50 more per bag and only a 10 bushel per acre difference. So im thinking these guys fields will have a good bit of weedy cover after the harvest for me to hunt.
 
Win97 said:
I do not buy idea that you have to spay wheat stubble or you will have a weed take over the next year. Fields get spayed every growing season anyway. I could see it years ago when you used cultivation instead of spay, but not today.
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You don't have to buy it just understand it. you have to spray to control weeds and volunteer wheat and mostly the volunteer wheat.
 
gobucks said:
Ive talked to a few guys here in central Ohio that said this was their last year of roundup ready crops. Its $50 more per bag and only a 10 bushel per acre difference. So im thinking these guys fields will have a good bit of weedy cover after the harvest for me to hunt.
Click to expand...

I am another guy that is making that move. There is a nice market for non GMO crops and I think we need to diversify our weed control. There will still be herbicides used and because of round up resistant weeds it is possible other chemicals might do a better job.
 
UGUIDE, the ground will get spayed the next spring at planting season anyway. Why not leave the stubble alone in the fall. It will make good cover and food for many types of birds not just game birds. Seems to be something good we could do, by just doing nothing.
 
If I understand it right the main reason to spray wheat stubble in the summer is to keep the diseases off the volunteer wheat so they wont transfer to the new wheat sowed in the fall. If it wasn't spayed then eventually there would be no wheat stubble at all because there would be no wheat. I have also killed pheasants in clean stubble and in short stubble where you would not think there could be birds but there were. Its easy to tell who knows something about farming and who doesn't but there is no question that is stupid if you don't know the answer and the only way to learn is to ask, in a nice way.
 
If weeds are left in the stubble, the weeds will use water that will be used by the crop the following year as well as produce seeds that will grow the following year. Something else, just because someone doesn't use roundup ready crops, doesn't mean they are going to let weeds grow. There are lots of conventional herbicides to kill weeds. The guys that used to let weeds grow, weren't making a living in todays farming economy.
 
I am no farming expert but I did grow up farming and milking cows in the 70s and 80s and know things have changed. Here in the east we plant mostly winter wheat. It is harvested in July and nothing is planted until the following spring, which is most likely to be soy beans. So most weeds that grow up in wheat stubble are killed off by winter weather. Yes they produce seeds and some weeds are biannual but they will get spayed anyway in the spring. All I am saying is that it would be nice to leave a little for the wildlife and at no cost. The fall spraying seems like over kill to me. If round up was more costly I do not feel this would be common practice like it has become.
 
Win97 said:
I am no farming expert but I did grow up farming and milking cows in the 70s and 80s and know things have changed. Here in the east we plant mostly winter wheat. It is harvested in July and nothing is planted until the following spring, which is most likely to be soy beans. So most weeds that grow up in wheat stubble are killed off by winter weather. Yes they produce seeds and some weeds are biannual but they will get spayed anyway in the spring. All I am saying is that it would be nice to leave a little for the wildlife and at no cost. The fall spraying seems like over kill to me. If round up was more costly I do not feel this would be common practice like it has become.
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There is a cost to leaving them. One pigweed will produce several hundred thousand seeds. Believe me, farmers aren't spraying them for the fun of it. Winter annuals are killed in corn stubble and bean stubble in the fall around here, because if left they make a good place for cutworm moths to lay eggs in the spring. Also, marestail has to be killed in the fall, once it bolts there is nothing that will kill it. All of our acres corn stubble, beans stubble and wheat gets sprayed in the fall because of this. Leaving the stubble and spraying it is still better than working the ground black like the old days.
 
If a farmer lets the weeds go on the stubble they might have a visit or a
letter from the township or county weed inspector.
Rented farm land, landlords do not like to see weeds growing in the fields.
 
fsentkilr said:
There is a cost to leaving them. One pigweed will produce several hundred thousand seeds. Believe me, farmers aren't spraying thblack like the old days.
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If you spay with a pre-emergent herbicide it should stop the weed seeds from growing. That is what they are made to do. The weed seeds is what is needed to feed the birds. Quail love pig weed and many studies say that is exactly what is needed and the even sell pig weed seed now. If these spays do not work tell me how you can clear and drain a piece of new ground and plant and spay it and it will be weed free even though it has a weed seed bank that has developed for years. This adversion to weeds is very detrimental to our wildlife. All I am talking about is wheat stubble.This is a hunting forum after all and I am trying to think of a way to increase and improve habitat with out taking ground out of production. Did not expect so much opposition, hoped for maybe more ideas instead. Let pig weed be the new cover crop:10sign:
 
Win97 said:
If you spay with a pre-emergent herbicide it should stop the weed seeds from growing. That is what they are made to do. The weed seeds is what is needed to feed the birds. Quail love pig weed and many studies say that is exactly what is needed and the even sell pig weed seed now. If these spays do not work tell me how you can clear and drain a piece of new ground and plant and spay it and it will be weed free even though it has a weed seed bank that has developed for years. This adversion to weeds is very detrimental to our wildlife. All I am talking about is wheat stubble.This is a hunting forum after all and I am trying to think of a way to increase and improve habitat with out taking ground out of production. Did not expect so much opposition, hoped for maybe more ideas instead. Let pig weed be the new cover crop:10sign:
Click to expand...

New pasture doesn't have much of a seed bank. I have brought lots of it into production over the years, and it is easier to keep clean because pigweeeds and waterhemp don't grow in pastures. There are some weeds that are resistant to all preemerge chemicals, especially pigweeds and waterhemp. I don't do this for a hobby, I farm over 6000 acres, so I do have a little experience in what I'm talking about. Like I said before, farmers don't like spending money spraying for the hell of it.
The reason I have a aversion to weeds, is because they cost me money, period.
 
In Western wheat country I'm seeing more and more combining with a stripping method. Don't know the advantage as far as production?
When the grain is good the stems are 20" and even higher. Pheasants do well in it, hard to hunt, run like heck down the rows.
I would expect predators have a tough time with this type of cover.
Shades the ground preventing a lot of weed growth.
There's getting to be less Fall tillage, lots more planting directly back into the stubble.

When You see very short stubble it's most like because of a poor crop. Grain is closer to the ground, the cutter bar is lowered accordingly.

Yes, weeds in crops are devastating, on a dry year it would mean a medium crop without weeds to crop failure with weeds.

And yes this is a pheasant forum, I like to see weedy patched in the stubble, low areas to wet for the combine, waste grain etc. :)

A guy I know in MT has a mile long wheat field along a stream. Leaves a 30 foot strip in wheat not sprayed for weeds stand over Winter.

The guy doesn't even hunt. :cheers:
 
I have noticed more wheat being cut with stripper headers also. One big advantage to them is you don't run as much through the combines as they just take off the heads and not the straw. They are also better for picking up down wheat. Here in eastern Kansas where most of the wheat is double cropped backed to notill beans, they leave less residue on the ground so the beans plant better. The down side to them is they are more expensive to keep up.

They are definitely better for the pheasants, and I hope their use keeps expanding. Here is a youtube video of a stripper header in action for those that are curious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EYij93pCZQ
 
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