Fair Chase

I am not saying that I have never done it, but I really don't get any pleasure hopping out of the truck to jump a bird. It is much more fun to have the dogs work a wild bird.
 
in Texas, fair chase is shooting a deer under a corn feeder......i never could understand that mentality.:confused:
 
Never done road/ditch hunting as it's a little bit illegal in Montana. I can also say I've never hunted anything but wild birds, have never stepped foot on a preserve in my life. I have no problem with people that hunt preserves, I just personally have a hard time paying to hunt birds when there are lots of other opportunities to hunt public land with a little private mixed in. I have to agree that fair chase is being out with my dog putting some miles on the ground. There have been many days I've come home empty handed, but still keep going out. I'm really looking forward to taking my oldest son out in 5 years and teaching him proper sportsmanship the same way it was taught to me by my father.
 
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hunter94 said:
in Texas, fair chase is shooting a deer under a corn feeder......i never could understand that mentality.:confused:
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High fence deer no less.

The whitetail and elk record books are so tainted in is disgusting. I envy no deer or elk hanging on a wall.
 
I've never shot a road rooster before, but I have certainly been in the truck with guys who have no objection to popping them out the window, or skidding to a stop before jumping out and blasting away. Road roosters are a tradition for many, even in Kansas where it is illegal.

Seeing them do it, it just doesn't feel "right" to me. It's not fair chase to me. It's not hunting to me. So the decision to shoot road birds is between them and their conscience. Many of them were raised road hunting, and it is second nature for them. I do what feels right to me and enjoy the sport the way I want to enjoy it. They can do what feels right to them.

I have one really good friend whose dad hunts with us probably once a year. I am not allowed to ride in his dad's truck because I won't shoot road birds. Fine by me, I'll drive my own truck.:) We are still friends at the end of the day...:cheers:

Ethics aside, what is the point of keeping dogs all year just so you can shoot birds out of the truck?
 
V-John said:
There was quite the stir up on another board about this (Ditch, I'm sure you remember that one) and having grown up in Kansas, and only hunted in Kansas, it blew my mind that people did this.
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Yeah, I remember it well. That one was educational for a lot of us – for me, it was discovering there was a place (your home state, V-J) where ground-sluicing was not legal. If you recall, though, that one was centered around kids and a ground-swat being the difference between them going home from their first hunt empty-handed or having something for the pot. To me, there's a big difference between that scenario (most often a planted-bird deal) and an adult with an itchy trigger finger caused by a long walk with no shooting opportunities.

I have a good buddy I've known nearly my entire life who has the same attitude toward wild roosters as previously mentioned – because of their sneakiness, it's entirely fair to shoot them wherever you can. This man is in excellent physical condition, owns two good dogs and is unquestionably the finest wingshot I've ever hunted with.

I'll be honest: If I hadn't participated in well over a hundred baseball, basketball or football games with him, picked up rocks on the school ground (as punishment for something or other) with him, run from the cops with him after we'd been drinking beer prior to age 21, etc., etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum, that attitude would cause some tension between us. But considering all that we've shared over the past 40-plus years, I just can't let it become an issue.
 
I enjoy from time to time going out to no mans land and hitting a mile or two of RR tracks, or a cattail road ditch. I park the car and walk for a mile or two then back. I see no reason to not call that fair chase. The dog is working and having fun getting some time in. Where one does fair chase has nothing to do with weather it is or is not fair chase. Seeing a bird land in a spot is just an opportunity one can take for a kid, or young dog to gain experience. It certainly is helpful in that manner. And with a young pup, I will take advantage of an easy positive experience any chance I get. Because it don't happen very often for me. Now just cruising around and popping them out the window, or flinging the door open and jumping out with loaded guns, while the car is rolling in to the ditch, thats a different story. One can fair chase any place however. Seeing a bird has nothing to do with it. I have seen a bird, took a pup out to try for a quick bird for them and came up empty handed most of the time. It is no different then seeing 5 off a road 200 yards in a spot then going out there... Just my 2 cents. I will do that too if I have permission. If I don't have to walk all day in knee deep snow to get a few birds for my dog, I'm cool with that.:D
 
Toad said:
Ethics aside, what is the point of keeping dogs all year just so you can shoot birds out of the truck?
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Well, for some of us, they are more than just tools to be used, they are parts of the family. I imagine I would have a dog, even if I couldn't hunt.

(Not saying Toad is this a "dog is a tool" type of guy, because I don't believe he is...)

Ditch, I learned the contrary. That there are places out there that it is legal! I'm sure we both still disagree on the topic (ground swatting for kids) but it is what it is, you know?
 
Maybe the ideal circumstances would be to be driving down the road, see birds in the ditch, have permission to hunt said land adjacent to the ditch, drive a couple of hundred yards pass said birds, get out of vehicle, get 20 or so yards into the field let your dog(s) hunt 'em up out of the ditch, and we shoot them from a legal distance??? A win - win for everybody involved except ofcourse, Mr. Rooster....LOL,Honestly though road hunters suck! I have had more then one hunt ruined by lazy A** shooters from the road! I really do not count a preserve hunt as a real hunt either, most pen raised birds and no where near the equal of their wild counterpart. Its what we call here in Montana a "chicken shoot"...like shooting chickens let out of the coop. I was just hunting on Wed. at a friends farm, I pulled into his yard complete with russian olives and their must have been over 50 pheasants running around the place, however since its so close to the house I drove pass letting the yard birds be....when I stopped at the coulee i was hunting, over 200 birds proceeded to lanch themselves out as I made the mistake of letting my oldest dog out instead of my 1 1/2 year old LM who began letting me know his frustration of having to sit in his kennel an extra 10 seconds by barking and whining which alerted every bird in the coulee to our arrival....LOL, That really wasn't fair to me though...I guess fair chase is in the eye of the beholder.
 
Hunting ditches is one thing, shooting from a vehicle or jumping out and shooting is another. If a guy gets out and walks a road ditch for a mile or two with a pup or not, where legal why not?
I am these days concentrating my hunting in Montana. Law states that all public road right of ways, usually defined from fence to fence is illegal to shoot from. And most places there is no off road wheeled vehicle travel. So hunters tend to park the truck and walk.
Possession limit on pheasants in MT is 9 roosters, I want every one to be memorable, fair chase.
I to think that large groups covering a field and using blockers, is not fair chase. But whatever, I'm not making a big deal, just want no part of it.

I also don't care for a photo of a pile of dead birds. Some time and care should be used in taking photos. Most all UPH members do a great job with the pics.
That's cool, :cheers:
 
V-John said:
Simply killing things is something I don't consider moral.
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Agree 100%. That's why I never kill anything I or others won't eat, and why it is typically illegal under hunting laws to merely kill anything - even if it's a mountain lion in Colorado, it has to be taken to be eaten.
 
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Will the road hunter in question be drinking a beer at lunch? :laugh: Not a serious question, just seemed like the thread was headed the way of the beer at lunch thread.

VJohn, of course you know my dogs are family members. It totally explains their lack of proper training... My point was just that if you have a bird dog and you are going bird hunting, what is the point of not using the dog you are feeding all year? Who, by the way, loves hunting more than anything. I think guys whose dogs are family members would want to give their "buddy" as much hunting time as they can. My dogs live for these types of adventures, just like all hunting dogs do.

BC, it takes courage to disagree with the masses. If you are eating the game and following the law, then more power to you. I'm sure pheasant dinner at your house tastes just as good as anywhere else. :thumbsup:
 
BritChaser said:
Agree 100%. That's why I never kill anything I or others won't eat, and why it is typically illegal under hunting laws to merely kill anything - even if it's a mountain lion in Colorado, it has to be taken to be eaten.
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That's why I don't shoot coyotes anymore. Shot one with grandpa's 22-250, paced him off 375yds, looked at him and thought "well I'll never do that again". It seemed like such a waste to me just leaving him lay there. If I knew how to skin and tan a yote it might have been different but until then I'll never again draw the cross hairs on another.
 
V-John said:
Just because it's legal doesnt make it moral or ethical.
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No, but "within the law" is the only standard we have a right to demand that others adhere to. Morals and ethics are extremely subjective, whereas what's written down in black and white in the regulations booklet usually is not.
 
As a kid we hunted ditches and shot lots of pheasants that way. Birds were plentiful and we didn't have a dog. After I got my first dog I enjoyed watching him work scent and we were way more productive with our dog than running up and down the ditches. As I began traing my pointing dogs I would pass on birds that were not pointed. The progression of the dog and his development was becoming more important than killing a bird. Don't get me wrong, I've stopped and let my dogs out to give chase to a bird that crossed the road, especially those days we walked miles! However, I'm not as excited to tell my friends I popped a bird from in a ditch as I was when I was a kid. Today sometimes I hunt with a camera just to see my dogs work. I appreciate the dog work more than the kill.
 
quail hound said:
That's why I don't shoot coyotes anymore. Shot one with grandpa's 22-250, paced him off 375yds, looked at him and thought "well I'll never do that again". It seemed like such a waste to me just leaving him lay there. If I knew how to skin and tan a yote it might have been different but until then I'll never again draw the cross hairs on another.
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I'm all for fair chase and ethical hunting but coyotes are not game animals, they are predators. I will shoot a coyote any chance I get and I'll bet you you'd have a hard time finding a rancher up here tell you not to shoot one. For me, there is nothing unethical about shooting a coyote. The fewer the better. I pop skunks and poccupies too. These predators really enjoy pheasant eggs. Coyotes will prey on calves and especially lambs. Shooting predators like coyotes is what I would like to call habitat management.
 
On rare occasion where legal I've popped out of the truck loaded the gun and walked up and shot birds I've seen while driving. I don't do it as a general practice though. A handful of times out of serveral hundred pheasants shot. More often than not pheasants I've tried it on are too smart for it to work anyway (I'm not one to ground pound and wouldn't think of sluicing a bird from a vehicle). Taking birds this way doesn't do much for me as the real reason I like bird hunting is that I'm a dog man. I chase birds because I like to watch dogs find and work birds. Without the dog I'd stick to big game hunting and occasionally shoot clays in the summer.
 
MTtailchaser said:
I'm all for fair chase and ethical hunting but coyotes are not game animals, they are predators. I will shoot a coyote any chance I get and I'll bet you you'd have a hard time finding a rancher up here tell you not to shoot one. For me, there is nothing unethical about shooting a coyote. The fewer the better. I pop skunks and poccupies too. These predators really enjoy pheasant eggs. Coyotes will prey on calves and especially lambs. Shooting predators like coyotes is what I would like to call habitat management.
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That's fine, I don't fault anyone who shoots yotes but I reject the idea that shooting coyotes helps game birds. Some of my best quail and pheasant spots have lots of yotes. Coyotes mean no foxes (a true gamebird predator), and they keep nest raiders (ground squirrels, opossums, raccoons etc) at bay. Now if a yote is killing live stock that is unacceptable.
 
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