Dog Food

trial and error

so i guess basically you try to find a brand of dog food that has the type of ingredients you are looking for , and for your dogs needs and then give it a trial run and see how your dog reacts to it and then hope that you can continue to find that type of food in your area.
 
Here's is a link to some useful information : http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=betterproducts

Protein and fat percentages are usually dependent on your dogs caloric requirements. If they are very active or have a higher metabolism you will want a food with more calories thus more fat and protein. One thing that people may not know about is the calorie content of a given food often listed as k/cals per cup. This is listed on the back of the bags normally with the protein/fat percentages. A feed having 420+ k/cals per cup is a fairly dense feed. Most of your 30/20 feeds are at least 450 k/cals or more.



Yes and no. Ingredients are normally listed i order of their weight prior to cooking. In the case of say just the ingredient "chicken" or whole chicken without the "meal" attached I would say no. Chicken in of itself will be mostly (80%) water prior to cooking. Once it's cooked the total weight falls below the weight of the grains used in the feed. So look for a feed that contains a meat "meal" as the first 1 or 2 ingredients.

In the case of chicken meal, the meat is dehydrated into a dry form and once cooked still retains the majority of it's weight to still be the main ingredient in the feed.

i read through that and alot was said about corn. there is no nutritunal value what so ever and should be avoided. i've done more research on corn in dog food and have found nothing good to say about it. all negative.
 
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A breeder recently recommended a line called Taste of the Wild to me. I picked up a bag and am going to try a switch to it for awhile after I finish my current bag of ProPlan.
 
i read through that and alot was said about corn. there in no nutritunal value what so ever and should be avoided. i've done more research on corn in dog food and have found nothing good to say about it. all negative.

I think you may have missed this statement by the author.

What to look for:
►Whole ground grains such as rice, oats, barley, millet etc., potatoes, sweet potatoes, peas
►Corn often gets an undeserved bad reputation. While it is not acceptable as a main source of protein in a dog food (as it is used in combination with corn gluten), as a source of carbohydrates it is no better and no worse than other grains in terms of nutritional value and digestibility. The starch part of corn is highly digestible but the whole ground product has a higher fiber content than other grains (around 7%), which results in slightly larger stools - often incorrectly interpreted as lack of digestibility. Unless an individual dog is intolerant or allergic to corn, there is no need to avoid products which include it in reasonable amounts.


I think we need to put this debate to bed as you seem pretty determined to cast corn as the all evil of dog food. It serves no purpose for us to try and convince each other who is right and who is wrong and I doubt neither of us will change the others thinking on it anyway. ;)
 
sounds good to me. i just dont want others to think that corn is really good for dogs and to look for it in their dog food. the more corn the bad IMHO. :cheers:
 
Food

GSP just wondering what brand you feed your dogs if you dont mind me asking. Thanks
 
I've been seeing some posts about which dog foods we are using so I thought I'd post a link to a couple of sites that review dog foods.



http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/

http://www.petfoodratings.net/dogs.html


I hope they help.

I feed my setter Ojien. Its expensive but you feed them a lot less so it evens out.
Thank you for the links, it has helped me out alot. I'm switching to Blue Buffalo as of this weekend. I'm almost out of my current bag and since I'm hunting this weekend I think that it's a good time to start using it. Happy New year!!!
 
I'm feeding Blue Buffalo www.bluebuff.com and am very happy. during the huting season i mix with "WILDNERESS" made by blue buff. i mix it with the regular food and he just does awesome with it. i switched from purina pro plan performance
 
WOW! The Wilderness formula has 42% protein and 586 calories per cup. I don't think I've ever seen the protein or calories that high on any other brand/formula of dog food. That's a lot of calories per cup. Brings up a question. How much protein is too much? Seems to me I've heard that too much protein can cause some problems. I don't know that for fact, it just seems I've read that some place.
 
Old wives tales about dry dog foods high in protein causing kidney disease run rampant both on and off the internet and many people deprive their dogs of what they crave most for fear of damaging their health.

Unfortunately the whole protein thing is not easily explained in just a few sentences, so bear with me if I ramble on for a while. I'll try to keep it as simple and straightforward as possible without going too much into scientific terms.

First of all, it is important that we understand that protein isn't only a nutrient - the amino acids it is made up of (think lego bricks forming a bigger structure) also serve as building blocks for body tissues, organs, enzymes, hormones, antibodies and so on - roughly half of the dry body mass of a dog consists of protein. Knowing this it is easy to understand that growing puppies need protein to build above mentioned body tissues, organs, enzymes, hormones, antibodies and both adults and growing puppies constantly need to replace and rebuild these as well. The body recycles amino acids to some extent, but part of them need to be replaced, just like you can't endlessly recycle paper or plastic.

Protein is processed in the liver and any waste materials are filtered and excreted by the kidneys. High quality protein does not generate large amounts of waste that needs to be removed from the body, but poor quality protein which is difficult to digest does and thus puts stress on the kidneys. The liver needs water to process protein and as a medium to carry waste products to the kidneys, where they are filtered out and most of the water is reabsorbed. The less concentrated the waste products in this primary filtrate are, the easier it is for the kidneys to do their filtering work - that's why it is unhealthy to feed dry food only and so critical that dogs eating mostly or exclusively dry food and dogs with liver disease get lots of extra water. Dogs who eat mostly canned food or a home prepared diet automatically take in more moisture and do not need to compensate as much by drinking. Contrary to what many people think and pet food companies claim, dogs (and cats) do not know instinctively how much extra water they have to drink to make up for what is lacking in the dry food. This is why I so highly recommend that people always add water to the kibble at feeding time.

Now that we have the basics laid out, we can return to the protein in the food. Many people cite old, outdated research that claims high protein percentages in the food are harmful to dogs and do all kinds of damage, especially to the liver. Fact is that these studies were conducted by feeding dogs foods that were made from poor quality, hard to digest protein sources, such as soy, corn, byproducts, blood meal and so on. From my explanation above, you now already know that it is a question of protein quality that affects the kidneys. Consider a wolf in the wild, who will eat relatively little else but meat if they can help it - these animals don't get kidney diseases on the same scale domestic dogs do. Their protein comes in the form of quality muscle and organ meat though, not processed leftovers from human food processing. It also contains around 70% moisture, whereas most commercial dry foods contain a maximum of 10%. Dogs and other "dog like" animals (canids) evolved eating a diet that consists primarily of meat, fat and bones, which they have been eating for hundreds of thousands of years. Commercial foods, especially dry food, has only been widely available for the past 60 years and we are still learning how much damage certain aspects of it can do. Things have improved quite a bit from hitting rock bottom in the 70s and 80s, but the majority of pet food manufacturers still produce bad foods from poor quality ingredients.

Just to digress for a moment, when I went to the grocery storeyesterday, I saw that Purina Dog Chow was on sale, $8 for a 22 pound bag. That's a little over 36 cents per pound, including the profit the supermarket makes on it, cost for the pretty, colorful packaging, advertising and all. On top of that, of course the manufacturer (Nestle/Purina) wants to make a profit too. How much do you think the food actually costs them just to make, without any profits? The answer is pennies per pound, which also reflects the ingredient quality. If I calculate a 40% profit margin for each the supermarket and the manufacturer, it comes to about 13 cents per pound. That's $260 per ton of food. Yikes.

Anyway, back to the protein. Protein in dog food can come from either plant or meat sources. Logically, plant sources are cheaper, especially considering that corn gluten meal, the most popular, cheap protein booster, is a byproduct of the human food processing industry, left over from making corn starch and corn syrup. It has a crude protein content of 60%, so theoretically even if your food recipe contained no other protein sources at all, you could make a food with a 20% crude protein content by mixing it 1:2 with some cheap carb source.

It is critical to stress that the term "crude protein" is used in the guaranteed analysis, which means there is no statement whatsoever as to its digestibility. Protein comes in many forms, even shoe leather, chicken feathers or cow hooves have a fairly high crude protein content, but the body is only able to extract and process very little of it, at the price of a lot of work and stress to do so.

Due to this labeling issue (only one of many, many others), the percentage of protein in a food by itself doesn't say anything at all. Ingredient lists are not 100% straightforward and truthful either, but at least you can somewhat gauge if there's even any quality protein in there at all.

Just to illustrate once again by example, let's say we have two foods which have the same percentages of protein, fat, carbohydrates, fiber and moisture. Food A contains 25% protein that is 60% digestible and food B contains 25% protein that is 85% digestible. That means of food A the body is able to utilize 15% of the protein content, but of food B 21.25%. Logically, to meet the body's requirement of protein, you'd have to feed more of food A than of food B, and the body of the dog eating food B will have to work less to utilize it.

I guess in really simple terms you can compare it to the engine of a car and the type of fuel you use. Just because you use high octane gas in a car that doesn't need it, it's not going to do any damage, but if you use poor quality fuel, regardless whether it is high or low octane, there will be buildup in the engine that hampers performance and will eventually lead to damage.
 
And so ends our lesson today on protein. :)

Just kidding with you GSP. Very explanation.

How much are you paying for the Blue Buffalo? I've seen it at the local Tactor supply store and it was very spendy. Not that it's not worth it.
 
i pay $43 for a 30# bag. but its worth it. you dont have to feed as much because of all the protein and nutrients in it. i feed almost half of what i used to with purina. Gunner is in shape even during the hunting season holds his weight pretty good. they dont poo as much because they reatain the food instead of it just going through them. do the math. it costs just about the same as your old food because you will feed less.
 
Dog food consumers are very susceptible to advertising and their susceptibility and preferences lead to changes in products.

The kick now seems to some different size/shape/taste kibble mixed in with the normal ration. For years--and still ongoing--some wail against any grain (take your pick--corn, rice...etc.) sourced nutrient in the mix. Then there's the anti-chicken folks.

Blue buff's "Life Source Bits" rings familiar.

Purina lost me--and reportedly, many thousands of other sporting dog owners--when they added their useless "shredded bits" to their pro plan formula. Pro plan "Performance" is still shredded bit free but the rest of their line still has them.

I've had good luck with Nutri-source and Kent NATIVE foods. They both have resisted the designer dog food mentality and are still focusing on basic sporting/active dog nutrition needs in product development. Both have a variety of rations for dogs of varying needs, from older dog off season rations to rocket fuel for true performance needs.
 
Curious what thoughts are on Eukanuba Premium Performance? The breeder was feeding his adult dogs that, so the pup was started on it, and has been chowing it down ever since (now 4.5mos old ESS). Not much mention of it here (good or bad). Curious what thoughts are.

And, is it normal for them to inhale their food? She gets just about a cup give or take each feeding (2xday) and she's done in less than 30 seconds or so it seems.
 
I was busy hunting while this discussion raged on. The Wednesday before Thanksgiving I had to put down my 15 1/2 year old golden retreiver. I hunted him hard for almost 12 years before he just couldn't go any more. Not that he didn't want to. He was in great shape and up to this past summer could still take a slow 2 mile walk around the neighborhood. He couldn't fight the brush, but still managed to walk and even jog a bit. He was always trim and went to the vet twice in all those years. Once for an ear infection, and once for a cut.

I fed him ProPlan all those years.

I have a 10 month old Llewllin Setter, and I have him on Blue Buffalo. Like GSP I did a lot of research, and what I read about gluten, and corn, and all of the "by-products" in Pro Plan made me nervous. I lost a 3 yr old Llewellin Setter last January. You can actually read about him in the latest issue of Pointing Dog Journal.

I'm not sure about this issue. Millions of dogs have lived long lives on Pro Plan, Eukanuba, Science Diet, etc, etc. But, like GSP I did a lot of research and decided it was worth the few extra bucks to give my dog the best food possible.

Anyway, good hunting!
 
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