Dog Dies While At Trainer

BRITTMAN said:
If a dog is reacting that negatively to the situation it is in ... the trainer needs to back off and reintroduce or take another approach. Hysterical dogs are not going to learn ... except learn to fear that method, that person, that building. That dog was not going to whoa if that is what was going on.
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That was my thought too. As a professional trainer he should have known no matter where the training is taking place, even if it was in a padded room with no chance of injury, the dog isn't learning anything other than fear.

If you're working on making sure a dog isn't gun shy and after the first shot the dog freaks out and bolts, are you going to keep shooting? Absolutely not.
 
Many want a negative reaction in the beginning of whoa post training. I don't agree with the whoa post at all now that I am aware of Perfection Kennels "Perfect whoa".
 
That video shows plain old animal cruelty.

Questions: are you and your dog bonded? Does it live in the house with you? If so, why in the world would you put your dog in the hands of a stranger in a strange environment? What could that possibly accomplish? A dog that is bonded to you will do everything it is capable of learning on your gentle and proper instruction. I have a friend who has sent to trainers the three setters he's had over the years. The behavior of the dogs afield never changed one whit to my eye. And imagine the uncertainty and confusion of these dogs who lived with and loved their human pack upon being fetched up in some strange place, kenneled at a minimum overnights probably for the first time, and with some stranger. Very few dogs can learn anything in those conditions. If you love your dog don't do this.

Aren't you smart enough to train your own dog? Training books, videos, and info abound on the internet.
 
BritChaser said:
That video shows plain old animal cruelty.

Questions: are you and your dog bonded? Does it live in the house with you? If so, why in the world would you put your dog in the hands of a stranger in a strange environment? What could that possibly accomplish? A dog that is bonded to you will do everything it is capable of learning on your gentle and proper instruction. I have a friend who has sent to trainers the three setters he's had over the years. The behavior of the dogs afield never changed one whit to my eye. And imagine the uncertainty and confusion of these dogs who lived with and loved their human pack upon being fetched up in some strange place, kenneled at a minimum overnights probably for the first time, and with some stranger. Very few dogs can learn anything in those conditions. If you love your dog don't do this.

Aren't you smart enough to train your own dog? Training books, videos, and info abound on the internet.
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I'm not defending the trainer at all, but simplifying this down to a matter of "are you smart enough" is disingenuous. I have the time/resources to train my dogs, but not everyone else does. Land/birds/equipment is a serious barrier.

This trainer is well known in the versatile world of MN. While it was a shock, the consensus of my training buddies is that if the video had been sent to us, we'd be there in all haste and he would have hell to pay.
 
I will say I’ve had my dog on a bench with a short leash ( not sure what they’re called) when she was younger and physco and she acted like she was being murdered. It was rather ridiculous. I’m sure if I taped it and added a bit of context it would look disturbing as well.

Not taking away from the video here, it looked pretty bad, dog was obviously very distressed. I read another article that stated he was saying “ I will not let this fucker win”
I couldn’t hear it so who knows.

Either way dog died in his care and after seeing that video, yikes.
 
Weimdogman said:
Many want a negative reaction in the beginning of whoa post training. I don't agree with the whoa post at all now that I am aware of Perfection Kennels "Perfect whoa".
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I live an hour or so away from Perfection kennel and took my dog to them a couple summers ago. I did have some communication issues with the young trainer at first which were rectified by the owner. He has a good operation there and his videos are great and easy to follow. I never felt my dog was mistreated or neglected while there. The foundation she got there was immensely helpful.
 
BritChaser said:
That video shows plain old animal cruelty.

Questions: are you and your dog bonded? Does it live in the house with you? If so, why in the world would you put your dog in the hands of a stranger in a strange environment? What could that possibly accomplish? A dog that is bonded to you will do everything it is capable of learning on your gentle and proper instruction. I have a friend who has sent to trainers the three setters he's had over the years. The behavior of the dogs afield never changed one whit to my eye. And imagine the uncertainty and confusion of these dogs who lived with and loved their human pack upon being fetched up in some strange place, kenneled at a minimum overnights probably for the first time, and with some stranger. Very few dogs can learn anything in those conditions. If you love your dog don't do this.

Aren't you smart enough to train your own dog? Training books, videos, and info abound on the internet.
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Do you send your kids to school/college when you can teach them yourself? Having a professional do things is not about not being smart enough to do it. It's mostly about the time required to do it all correctly.

I sent my dog to a pro and I can tell he loved it because he got way more bird contacts than I could give him in the same timeframe.
 
Goosemaster said:
You guys that are taking your dogs to these trainers are crazy.
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I use trainers, usually the breeder I bought the dog from, and am very happy with the results. I’ve spent a decent amount of time with them, and am confident that they care about the dogs. Goose, from what I gather from reading your posts, it doesn’t seem like there’s much method to your madness…that’s ok, just my perspective. I’ve used trainers when my dogs are about 12-15 months old, after I gave them their puppy season out in the field, and they’re excited about birds. Usually they’re being collar conditioned and force fetched, and getting some advanced retrieving work…probably 4-6 weeks. I’ll visit and participate once or twice, depending. Very happy with the results. Call me crazy, you‘re entitled to your opinion…as is everyone else. Losing 15 birds out of 30-35-45 or whatever you knocked down is crazy…if you’re being truthful, that is…no idea. Packing the truck now, heading for SD for the week.
 
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benelli-banger said:
I use trainers, usually the breeder I bought the dog from, and am very happy with the results. I’ve spent a decent amount of time with them, and am confident that they care about the dogs. Goose, from what I gather from reading your posts, it doesn’t seem like there’s much method to your madness…that’s ok, just my perspective. I’ve used trainers when my dogs are about 12-15 months old, after I gave them their puppy season out in the field, and they’re excited about birds. Usually they’re being collar conditioned and force fetched, and getting some advanced retrieving work…probably 4-6 weeks. I’ll visit and participate once or twice, depending. Very happy with the results. Call me crazy, you‘re entitled to your opinion…as is everyone else. Losing 15 birds out of 30-35-45 or whatever you knocked down is crazy…if you’re being truthful, that is…no idea. Packing the truck now, heading for SD for the week.
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It isn't crazy, but I'm not condoning it. Have fun in sodak,I wish I had a farm down there.We do own some ground in Montana.
 
Springer22 said:
Geez what the hell was up with that video? Dog seemed full blown terrified. Am I missing something? I’m pretty green to advanced training tactics but what was that supposed to be?

Sad deal. Dude does have good google reviews.
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I have never heard of this trainer or kennel probably because I am a retriever guy, he might be the best or the worst trainer for all I know.

I think we are seeing to small a portion of the video to really get a feel for what happened. Maybe the dog was being FF'd as it appears to have a toe hitch attached. I agree the dog looks very unstable, whether from unfair training practices or from a mental issue? Possibly it just cant handle the pressure of FF, maybe the trainer sent this video to the owner to show what he is up against? I honestly have no opinion other than what I see makes no sense. I know some dogs are not capable of kennel life and the pressures of training. No trainer wants to make the call saying your dog doesn't have what it takes, as the owner usually pushes back because we all think our dogs are perfect.... But some dogs just aren't.
 
Gatzby said:
I have never heard of this trainer or kennel probably because I am a retriever guy, he might be the best or the worst trainer for all I know.

I think we are seeing to small a portion of the video to really get a feel for what happened. Maybe the dog was being FF'd as it appears to have a toe hitch attached. I agree the dog looks very unstable, whether from unfair training practices or from a mental issue? Possibly it just cant handle the pressure of FF, maybe the trainer sent this video to the owner to show what he is up against? I honestly have no opinion other than what I see makes no sense. I know some dogs are not capable of kennel life and the pressures of training. No trainer wants to make the call saying your dog doesn't have what it takes, as the owner usually pushes back because we all think our dogs are perfect.... But some dogs just aren't.
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Ive had a few other posts in this thread and that’s where my thoughts are going as well.
Hopefully it all gets figured out and the truth prevails.
 
Let's think about this for a minute here.

How many dogs get professionally trained every single day and how many die while they are being trained?

Its like dying in a plane crash or getting struck by lightning or getting attacked by a shark. That's how rare it is.

I sent my dog to 2 week basic bird/gun/obedience training when she was 6 months old and it paid off tremendously. I do some training at home and in the yard myself, but there's only so much I can do. The next dog I get will be going to the same training too - just not this trainer.
 
What a tragic situation.

About 15 years ago I hunted with a guy who had a Lab with all kinds of titles. That dog did not retrieve without using the e collar. I will take my imperfect dogs that are out there enjoying themselves over that any day of the week.
 
Ok, so I went ahead and watched the video. It was not what I expected. 1st of all I will say you should always be careful with the gwp/vdd dogs. Most will display a fight rather than flight response in some situations. I've always described their personality as a little flakey! Most do not respond well with a heavy hand! I have heard story's and experienced something bad myself when one was removed from its home and thrust into a strange environment. It seems to have 2 collars on. Is one a shock collar? If it was being shocked along with the unfamiliar tether around the waist, throw in the severe separation anxiety and I can totally understand this response. But what I don't get is why in the hell he would make a video and send it to the owner. And why in the hell would the owner not immediately go get their dog after seeing it? And how did the dog really die? A lot of unanswered questions.
 
birddude said:
A lot of unanswered questions.
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Definitely. As someone else mentioned, the video could have been sent to the owner explaining "They aren't grasping whoa training, this is the response I keep getting. What would you like me to do?"

Certainly some context is missing with the video. I'm sure the trainer didn't send JUST the video with no explanation, and the dog owner hasn't said (in the article at least) what, if any, context was provided. No matter what though, a bad and sad deal for the dog owner.
 
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