Close Working Pointers

S

slidellkid

Member
I am thinking about a new dog. I have not decided if I am going to buy a flushing breed or a pointer. I have had pointers in the past and I am just not sure a flusher is going to bring me as much pleasure as seeing my dog locked up and quivering on point. All that said, I have not ruled out a flusher.

If I do go the pointer route I want a dog that works fairly close. I have had Vizslas in the past and they worked really close, but I don't know that all of them do.

What other pointing breeds tend to naturally work close - do the Small Munsterlanders and Pudel Pointers work fairly closely?

Thanks,

Dan
 
Both can be easily trained to hunt to your needs.Puds tend to adjust to the cover. Close on the thick stuff further out on short grass, moutain areas etc. I have huntined a lot behind both.
 
Define close!

No really, what does close working mean to you? There are a bunch of different definitions.

I trained my GWP to be fairly close working as I tend to hunt smaller properties where if she ranges farther she'll be trespassing while out of site. I beep her to check in once she gets past maybe 300 yards. Less if the birds are jumpy.
 
Well, I guess I consider close to be a hundred yards or under. I wouldn't want a dog out there at 300 or 400 yards, I like to watch them work up close, that is part of the fun of it for me.
 
Spinone Italiano
Bracco Italiano
And French Brittanies are generally closer working pointing breeds.

I personally have never hunted with a Brittany that would range over 100yds... Although they do exist.

I think most pointing breeds can be easily trained to stay in that range, but you would have the worst luck with the English dogs.

The above were all generalizations made by a ignoramus.
 
slidellkid said:
Well, I guess I consider close to be a hundred yards or under. I wouldn't want a dog out there at 300 or 400 yards, I like to watch them work up close, that is part of the fun of it for me.
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Close working or maybe I should say CLOSER working is going to have as much to do with bloodlines or individual breeding as it will with the breed. There are lines that run bigger and some that do not. Some generalities have been given already as far as breed goes, but just as important is to research the breeder and by all means convey exactly what you're looking for up front.
 
Keeping a dog in gun range...continual problem if the dog has a strong prey drive. I'm sure if I didn't keep my dog in check, he would hunt alone and range a mile away.


If you want a dog to range close, don't allow him to go beyond a certain distance; whether on strolls in the park or hunting.

I'm sure there are lots of opinions on this...
 
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I used to hunt quail with two other guys and we all had dogs. During the first years I had a Vizsla and she worked close. Another guy had an English Setter and she worked very close. The last guy had an EP and ranged out a long ways.

The little female setter died and my buddy got a male setter to replace her. He was completely different. I would range out 400-500 yards. My Vizsla always stayed within a hundred yards and I never had to reign her in, that is just how she hunted. The big running setter and the big pointer usually ended up finding the birds simply because they got their first. My little Vizsla would back and that was always a beautiful scene with three breeds of dogs pointing.

It is simply a shame we no longer have viabable hunting populations of bob white quail in the south. I miss those days dearly.
 
"If you want a dog to range close, don't allow him to go beyond a certain distance; whether on strolls in the park or hunting."

I have flushers and nothing can be more true. I've hunted behind a Vizsla and it worked real tight. I enjoyed watching the dog work.
 
"Close" and "pointers" do not really go together......kind of an oximoron.
I know the world is full of supposedly "world-class pointers", but I prefer a flushing lab that is 15-30 yards out, and not flushing wild birds 100-300 yards ahead of the hunters.

However, pointers seem to be IDEAL for pen-raised birds that will hold for a point.
 
CRP said:
"Close" and "pointers" do not really go together......kind of an oximoron.
I know the world is full of supposedly "world-class pointers", but I prefer a flushing lab that is 15-30 yards out, and not flushing wild birds 100-300 yards ahead of the hunters.

However, pointers seem to be IDEAL for pen-raised birds that will hold for a point.
Click to expand...

I hunt with a pointing breed because I want my dog out there covering big areas of the high plains and mountain west. As long as I can see him, fine. If he finds a bird he locks on point until I walk up the bird. I associate flushing breeds with working close.
 
I agree with everyone. One britt close, one britt far. Far dog's job is to push birds to the edge for me and close dog. Since 1997, I have had the closest dog and the farthest dog. Far dog gets GPS.

Far dog best quail dog, close dog best pheasant dog.
 
Close Hunter

I hunt a pointer because I'm too old to chase a flusher. My French Spaniel will hunt at my feet if I make her.
 
CRP said:
"Close" and "pointers" do not really go together......kind of an oximoron.
Click to expand...

I agree, but it really depends on what people are calling close. For some, 100 yards is close. If we are talking inside normal shotgun ranges then yes that is close. Trying to hack a pointer into staying inside of shotgun ranges is kind defeating the purpose for which the dog is bred. They are bred to run outside of normal shotgun ranges and the key will be training your dog to be staunch when it goes on point. Building a trust so-to-speak that your dog will handle birds correctly, till you get there. If a rooster runs out or busts wild at no fault of the dog, it's just the nature of the game when wild pheasant hunting, pure and simple. The more ground a pointer can cover, the more birds they will find.

As was previously posted there are some pointing breeds that tend to run closer and slower and for someone looking for those traits they make sense.

Even flushers, if out of control can run outside of gun range, which will do you no good either. So again, training becomes the issue.

IMO I would rather (much easier) have a dog with a little bit of run and work with him to stay closer, rather than trying to get a boot polisher to range out.
 
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If you want a dog that stays in gun range, you don't want and don't need a pointing dog.

You can find setters and pointers with any range you want. I like to have 2 of different ranges. I have one that is bigger running than many like. He is often out many 100 yards when we are in open country. My other setter is closer working, ranging out to 150-200 yards. They make a great team and both back reliably.

If I only had one and I was going to hunt primarily pheasant I would go with a 100-200 yrd dog. If I were going to hunt quail, or spend time after prairie birds like sharptail, Prairie chicken, huns, where the birds are spread out or do not run much, I would go with a bigger running dog.

Both the closer working and bigger running dogs will work. But both have their good and bad points.

And you should get a setter, otherwise you will risk getting setter envy later.
:cheers:
 
The dichotomy of the idea is "comfortable" in the eyes of the beholder. I think a pointing dog devotee, having been victimized with a run-like-hell "pointing" dog, busting birds across the country, after he comes out of shock, will gravitate to close working dogs! I think all of it determined by where you hunt. A 160@ field of rank CRP prairie grass, is a terrible place to let loose a big running dog. So is a woodcock/grouse, north woods timberland. As posted, it is maddening use a dog, for quail, huns, sharptails, without the range to cover a 7000@ pasture! I like a dog who uses cover, if it's tight, stay close, open country let them roll. Faith that the pointing dog being dead honest is paramount. In tight cover, there are a lot of Setters and pointers who are close determined hunters, but flushers might be better depending on your taste for the shots presented.
 
Close

The distance I let my dog range seems to change depending on the hunting situation. Back home in Wisconsin I just my pointer run because I know the bird that she pins down is gonna stick. In SD in crp or lower cover I pull her in a little closer. The birds seem so apt to run or flush beyond my gun out there. They just seem faster, smarter, and wilder, imo. When I hunt cattails and crazy thick cover at the end of the season I hold her the tightest. Mostly because I cant see her half the time and the birds are so wild that time of year. If I let her run long range all the time she starts hunting for herself and forgets who she road with. She has not been able to head off a SD bird and pin him down while hunting back to me yet. She is 3 years old and gets better every year, so maybe it will come. My hunting is done 95% of the time solo, so during the entire hunt I walk ten yards and stop for one minute over and over again. That changes her range as well, because when ever I stop, she tends to work to me. I've really slowed down my approach the last couple years, always stopping and moving laterally. I can't believe the birds I've flushed when I stop and wait. Hard to hunt with a group like that, but a lot of fun when hunting alone.
 
CRP said:
"Close" and "pointers" do not really go together......kind of an oximoron.
I know the world is full of supposedly "world-class pointers", but I prefer a flushing lab that is 15-30 yards out, and not flushing wild birds 100-300 yards ahead of the hunters.

However, pointers seem to be IDEAL for pen-raised birds that will hold for a point.
Click to expand...

U.B. disagrees with this post.
 
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I guess I shoot pointed birds 300 yards out with 1oz. of shot in a 20.ga.:rolleyes:
I hunt with a guy who has a Lab. He carries a 12 with 3" mags and actually shots most of his birds at 50 yards while he is yelling at the dog. Going back to my original comment, the Pudelpointer will work the cover and/or as trained. I really do not like mine out more than 50 unless chasing sharpies or quail.
 
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