Better enjoy the SoDak Hunting NOW boys, Our opener, was non-resort- 60 birds /20 hunters/2 hrs. Southern Iowa used to be loaded with birds (Quail too) but Turkeys moved in thanks to Iowa DNR. Same guy now is up in So Dak GFP as head and vehemently claims Turkeys wont move a P-Hen off her eggs to eat -em'. They are even importing the Gobblers into East River. Keep em in the Black Hills but not East River. Time will tell unless you pheasant hunters take action. Same type of egghead academics in GFP claimed Coyotes and Fox dont hurt Pheasants. Ever been around Woonsocket & Wessington Springs lately. Ask Ron Olinger, noted Attorney in Pierre. They popped about a hundred coyotes this yr. Birds were scarce. Time will tell. Ed McGaa- Author of Dakota Pheasant & Iowa too. (Northern Iowa that is.)
Beware the Turkeys
- Thread starter Eagleman4
- Start date
chadsbritt
New member
Yeah, I've heard turkeys do a number on pheasant and quail populations. My buddy said his area of Nebraska used to be loaded with pheasants. Not since the turkeys have moved in. Everyone up in SD better speak up or you may be hunting giant ditch chickens! 
1pheas4
Moderator
EagleMan, that's interesting. I talked with a guy years ago who had a theory about grouse #'s in Wisconsin and why they reamain fairly low. He told me he thinks it's the boom in turkey #'s. I shrugged his theory off at the time.
This is the first I've heard of turkeys eating eggs. It makes sense. They cover alot of ground when feeding and why wouldn't they take advantage of an open nest of eggs? Thanks for the info. --1pheas4
This is the first I've heard of turkeys eating eggs. It makes sense. They cover alot of ground when feeding and why wouldn't they take advantage of an open nest of eggs? Thanks for the info.
--1pheas4Turkeys imported by DNR/GFP
If I was Commissioner I'd put a bounty on any Megachicken seen east of the Missouri. Why guys (who mostly can't move) want to dress up in a camo Burka and sit and sit, playing some sort of Harp and only allowed one, maybe two- beats the hell out of me unless you are bound to a wheelchair. We put Disabled Vets- in the back of an open pickup and they get their birds, Pheasants. Those things ain't no Butterball either. I got one for a farmer down in Iowa, it tasted like acorns. In the Black Hills they taste like pine cones and not much to them. Mega chickens belong on the farm. Get in shape by playing Pickleball, guys. See www.pickleball.com I am 74 and this sport keeps my legs in shape for the most thrilling sport of all-Ringnecks- especially in the Dakotas. Northern Iowa has been great but got hurt bad with the Spring rains especially.
If I was Commissioner I'd put a bounty on any Megachicken seen east of the Missouri. Why guys (who mostly can't move) want to dress up in a camo Burka and sit and sit, playing some sort of Harp and only allowed one, maybe two- beats the hell out of me unless you are bound to a wheelchair. We put Disabled Vets- in the back of an open pickup and they get their birds, Pheasants. Those things ain't no Butterball either. I got one for a farmer down in Iowa, it tasted like acorns. In the Black Hills they taste like pine cones and not much to them. Mega chickens belong on the farm. Get in shape by playing Pickleball, guys. See www.pickleball.com I am 74 and this sport keeps my legs in shape for the most thrilling sport of all-Ringnecks- especially in the Dakotas. Northern Iowa has been great but got hurt bad with the Spring rains especially.
niceshot
New member
State
There is just to much anecdotal evidence to dismiss this theory. It's interesting to note that NW Iowa has the least amount of woodland habitat in the state and conversely the most pheasants. I realize woodland/trees have always been marginal habitat for pheasants, but what else explains the complete absence of pheasants in the woodlands of Missouri,Iowa,Wisconsin,and Minnesota. I think it's wishful thinking to believe a change in the weather pattern is going to bring the pheasants back in those areas. My lifelong dream is to own land to develop for pheasant habitat, and I will be looking for property with no trees. I don't want to offend anyone, but I will take up golf before turkey hunting.
There is just to much anecdotal evidence to dismiss this theory. It's interesting to note that NW Iowa has the least amount of woodland habitat in the state and conversely the most pheasants. I realize woodland/trees have always been marginal habitat for pheasants, but what else explains the complete absence of pheasants in the woodlands of Missouri,Iowa,Wisconsin,and Minnesota. I think it's wishful thinking to believe a change in the weather pattern is going to bring the pheasants back in those areas. My lifelong dream is to own land to develop for pheasant habitat, and I will be looking for property with no trees. I don't want to offend anyone, but I will take up golf before turkey hunting.
labsnslabs
New member
Every state official will tell you that turkeys arent harmful. Why would they, there is to much revenue in it. I had an older gentleman that worked for me, he had a pet turkey and chickens. He told me a story one day about feeding these birds. He was watching them eat and side by side out of his little feeder. The turkey grabbed the chicken by the neck and killed it, and then went back to eating. Turkeys eat bugs and a newly hatched quail isnt any bigger then a bumble bee. Those ground carp dont descriminate. We have hardly any quail in Eastern KS now. Its been a bad combination of habitat loss and a turkey explosion in my opinion.
Missouri denies the correlation between turkeys and pheasant and quail numbers as well. I personally don't believe them. I have a sure fire pheasant area in North Missouri, it has pheasants and I have never seen a turkey anywhere on it, which is saying something in this state! Home from town on a rainy overcast day, yesterday, counted 63 turkeys in the field down the road, haven't heard a quail in three years. One nice little advantage though, it's legal to shoot turkeys of either sex, over your pointing dog, in Nebraska, and the eastern part of Kansas in the fall season. We have had several pointed over the years. never had a permit, now it's my 13 year old daughters major quest in life. Youth permits are 6.00 in Nebraska, res. or non res. Enjoy!
I also don't buy the information that turkeys don't have a direct impact on grouse of pheasants.
One thing to notice though is the habitat requirements of each. Turkeys like late successional habitat. If you have good turkey habitat, consider reseting the landscape for the birds that we do love.
One thing to notice though is the habitat requirements of each. Turkeys like late successional habitat. If you have good turkey habitat, consider reseting the landscape for the birds that we do love.
henhenROOSTER!!!
New member
Plain & Simple - turkey habitat & pheasant/upland habitat are two entirely different worlds, sometimes one or the other created or built upon the very same landscape - you can manage for one or the other, but not both - the public and/or the game dept will get whichever one they want, but don't blame it on the poor birds themselves!
I will say that turkey habitat once set in motion is far less ongoing high-maintenance compared to upland, so maybe that's part of the reason some game depts lean toward it...
I will say that turkey habitat once set in motion is far less ongoing high-maintenance compared to upland, so maybe that's part of the reason some game depts lean toward it...
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I don't quite get the hostility toward turkeys or turkey hunting. As to whether the turkeys are detrimental to pheasant or not, I don't have much of a personal opinion - haven't seen any evidence to say they are, but not saying they aren't. I have read the same thing you all have, that the "official" word is they are not a problem for phez.
But for me personally, turkey hunting in the Spring can be just about as magical as pheasant hunting, although obviously it's vastly different. I strictly go after Merriam's in the Colorado and the Black Hills, and have a blast! I'm not too sure I would like to pursue the Rio Grande's or Easterns as much, given their range and somewhat different behavior. But I would like to think there's room out there for both species and those that pursue them! Oh, and the way I do it, I burn just about as many calories chasing those toms as I do the roosters! I wander quite a bit more than the "typical" blind hunter - not really by the book, but it works for me.
But for me personally, turkey hunting in the Spring can be just about as magical as pheasant hunting, although obviously it's vastly different. I strictly go after Merriam's in the Colorado and the Black Hills, and have a blast! I'm not too sure I would like to pursue the Rio Grande's or Easterns as much, given their range and somewhat different behavior. But I would like to think there's room out there for both species and those that pursue them! Oh, and the way I do it, I burn just about as many calories chasing those toms as I do the roosters! I wander quite a bit more than the "typical" blind hunter - not really by the book, but it works for me.
Turkeys & Eggheads
Odd how an Egghead just cannot be convinced when state after state has had its quail and Phez population steadily diminish, All kinds of excuses they offer but practicality and direct evidence is not there bag. Those 60 birds we bagged SODak opener all came out of groves (trees). Same the next day. I spend a bit of time at a SoDak phez resoret and talk to many out of staters. They all had Pheasants and mostly quail when they were kids. Turkeys moved in and guess what? Like Vietnam- you just cannot convince eggheads and unfortunately they weasel there way in to the DNR/GFP positions. Turkeys are dooming the best phez state in the union guys. Better enjoy it while it lasts.
Odd how an Egghead just cannot be convinced when state after state has had its quail and Phez population steadily diminish, All kinds of excuses they offer but practicality and direct evidence is not there bag. Those 60 birds we bagged SODak opener all came out of groves (trees). Same the next day. I spend a bit of time at a SoDak phez resoret and talk to many out of staters. They all had Pheasants and mostly quail when they were kids. Turkeys moved in and guess what? Like Vietnam- you just cannot convince eggheads and unfortunately they weasel there way in to the DNR/GFP positions. Turkeys are dooming the best phez state in the union guys. Better enjoy it while it lasts.
thurrealty
New member
I went through this with the Fish and Wildlife in Ky...made my speech/pitch regarding this same exact issue...after a lot of conversation with the so - called experts...I was told I was wrong...didnt know what I was talking about...etc...after the meeting an employee of fish and wildlife came up to me and said...DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH WE MAKE OFF TURKEY HUNTERS? I can take you to areas in Kansas that were loaded with quail and no turkeys...now many turkeys...no quail...you do the math. The habitat crap is just an excuse when you dont want the facts.
I don't know about pheasants and turkeys... I think there is some merit to the fact that there habitat is so vastly different that the impact will be lessened. That said, there is overlap, so an impact is not out of the question.
I do know about grouse and woodcock. And my mind is made up on that matter. Turkeys are hell on their nests. And their habitats overlap extensively. They cover huge areas and those beady little eyes don't miss a thing.
The MI DNR will never admit it of course. The reintroduction of the wild turkey in MI is one of the few examples they can point to as a huge success. I guess success being a relative term. But proliforate they have. They're now like flies in most of the lower peninsula.
I do know about grouse and woodcock. And my mind is made up on that matter. Turkeys are hell on their nests. And their habitats overlap extensively. They cover huge areas and those beady little eyes don't miss a thing.
The MI DNR will never admit it of course. The reintroduction of the wild turkey in MI is one of the few examples they can point to as a huge success. I guess success being a relative term. But proliforate they have. They're now like flies in most of the lower peninsula.
There are already alot of turkeys in SD, what you guys aren't saying is in those same states you talk about losing pheasants are the same states that don't have any damn habitat. Blame the loss of habitat, not the turkeys. West river SD fall turkey seasons is open until January and I can go shoot two turkeys and three pheasant on the same farm on the same day. Personally turkey hunting isn't very sporting and has no trill out here as you just have to drive out to a ranchers feed bunk and you will find all turkeys you want. I would hope everyone here knows that that the loss of habitat is the biggest reason pheasant numbers have fallen in the aforementioned states in this thread. Blaming turkeys rather than habitat is just barking up the wrong tree. You could kill every turkey in IA, IL, IN, WI and MO and the pheasant numbers aren't going to rebound without better habitat.
Ya know Wirehairs, you're absolutely correct. Thank you for reminding me of the true problem - habitat. Foolish of me to stray from my mantra. There is no reason both species can't coexist, given the proper habitat.
The problem is that pheasant habitat is relatively expensive (be it through maintenance or out of production farm land) to maintain as opposed to a mature forest. Real easy to forget about a wood lot and let it mature to the point that it is good for nothing other than squirrels and turkeys. Not so for pheasant habitat. And there in lies the problem.
Sadly (tearfully actually) I am coming to grips with the fact that my 2 and 4 year old boys will likely never know what it is to hunt a wild pheasant, least wise not in MI. Even more sadly, I fear that their children will view grouse in much the same manner as the MI pheasant is now. Grouse hunting is good in MI right now. But the trends don't look good for the future. Unless there is significant change in forest management, I fear that the grouse will become the next pheasant.
Just not enough money involved, least wise not here in MI. Turkeys and WT are KING. I got out of deer hunting because I grew tired of the chest pounding "my rack is bigger than yours" mentality. Sadly, I think we are headed straight down the path of a successful hunt being measured in inches,
be it bone or beard. Upland tradition is by and large lost.
So we can place the blame wherever we want. Turkeys, DNR, COs, habitat, farming, logging, etc. The fact of the matter is that we just can't afford the wild pheasant anymore. Doesn't fit in with corporate America.
Lest we forget the golden rule. He who has the most gold, makes the rules.
BTW, I had a particularly piss poor day at the office today and am feeling rather defeated. I'm sure that is reflected in the sentiment of this post. Hopefully I will get up on the right side of the bed tomorrow and fight the good fight. Right now, just not feeling it....
You should come hunt in MI. You can walk habitat that looks like it would hold a pheasant all day and never see one because there aren't any in the area anymore.All that said, the probability that pheasant populations disappear is equivalent to saying I'm going to win the lottery. Just ain't happening.
I'll walk as far as I have to to find birds. Even if it's just a couple some times.
And I know our dogs will too, and love it.
Sounds like fun and quite different from my experiences in my home state with Easterns. Essentially it's just like deer hunting here, except that they are usually in groups. You scout ahead of time and then you either get one within the first hour of light if they're roosted where you can hunt or you spend the entire day waiting, and waiting, and waiting, ..., for them to make their daily rounds.
Aside from the first hour of daylight, it's boring as heck compared to upland hunting. :thumbsup:
Downtown Bang!
Member
My family owns around 300 acres of mixed ag land in Southern Indiana. Thirty-five years ago we had quite a few covey's of quail on our property and really no Turkeys. Today we have plenty of Turkeys and no quail.
The quail are gone because what little ground isn't tilled or pastured is choked full of mature fescue and other cool season grasses. There are hardly any fence rows left and what is usually gets sprayed yearly. No one maintains woodlots, fallow fields, waterway drainages in there crop fields, small patches of sweet corn, blackberry canes or any other little untilled, unkempt corners that might harbor weeds, bare ground, insect life and other important brood rearing\protective cover.
Almost every pasture has the maximum number of cattle possible running on it and everything inside that pasture is pretty much an ecological wasteland because of it. Every possible tillable acre is going to be farmed. Those acres are nothing more than lifeless corn or soybean monocultures.
Turkeys have thrived because they can live in the one type of semi wild places that have been left alone. Those small patches of mature hard wood forest that are either too steep or too wet to farm.
It's pretty of sad because now when I go back home I see four types of wildlife. Whitetail Deer, Turkey, Crows & Doves. Five if you count barn pigeons.
The quail are gone because what little ground isn't tilled or pastured is choked full of mature fescue and other cool season grasses. There are hardly any fence rows left and what is usually gets sprayed yearly. No one maintains woodlots, fallow fields, waterway drainages in there crop fields, small patches of sweet corn, blackberry canes or any other little untilled, unkempt corners that might harbor weeds, bare ground, insect life and other important brood rearing\protective cover.
Almost every pasture has the maximum number of cattle possible running on it and everything inside that pasture is pretty much an ecological wasteland because of it. Every possible tillable acre is going to be farmed. Those acres are nothing more than lifeless corn or soybean monocultures.
Turkeys have thrived because they can live in the one type of semi wild places that have been left alone. Those small patches of mature hard wood forest that are either too steep or too wet to farm.
It's pretty of sad because now when I go back home I see four types of wildlife. Whitetail Deer, Turkey, Crows & Doves. Five if you count barn pigeons.
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Well, I see what most of you are saying, and certainly, if hunting Merriams in the foothills was as easy as shooting them in a feedlot, I surely wouldn't bother. Obviously it's a different story in CO and the Black Hills where I hunt. I was just very surprised by the vehemence of the comments against turkeys here. While I had heard complaints before, I thought they were limited to farmers - clearly it's a bigger problem (perceived or real) "back east" than I realized! And just as certainly, if I were convinced turkeys were going to seriously impact phez populations, I'd be getting on board with you! That said - keep in mind, turkeys are indigenous in most states, phez aren't in any.