Just got back from south dakota,had a goodtime,shot some birds,but had a tough time finding birds that would hold for a point,even for a few seconds.Most fields we entered after the first point and shots the whole field exploded with birds then it was over.I know it's 3 weeks into the season and birds have been hunted,but what are the tricks to hunting birds with pointing dogs after the big push of hunters is over.Most hunters we ran into had flushing dogs.I'm from michigan and fairly new to wild western birds.My GSP and my buddies brittany are both good on grouse and woodcock,but need some advice on how to work these pheasants after they've been hunted.Thanks very much
Best way to work pointing dogs after...
- Thread starter woodsman
- Start date
Prairie Drifter
Well-known member
There is a knack to getting educated roosters pointed. When your dog gets that knack, you can get by with not having it more. First and foremost, you have to be quiet. In WWII, they found in Britain that pheasants could hear cannon fire from 500 miles away. Transfer that to door slamming, hollering, and all the other clatter you hear from some groups, and the birds have the edge. Second, knowing where and how the birds will be/act is important. Being off by 60 yards or more may be the difference between your thinking there were no birds in the field and having most or all of a limit when you leave. DON'T park where you think the birds ought to be. Park one or two sides away and try to plan it to come at the birds from down wind. Read the dog. I've seen far too many handlers grabbing for their whistle to tell the dog to stay with the group when the dog was telling them that the birds weren't staying in front of the group. A good dog will adjust to the circuitous antics of an educated rooster, let him! Trust the dog. If he points and it seems unproductive, the bird moved, the dog wasn't lying. Tap him on the head and keep at it. I've tracked running roosters well over a mile before they screwed up. Then the responsibility shifts to you! Lots of folks teach their dogs to be staunch and hold to shot and flush. With roosters, I want the dog to not only think, but I want him to cheat when it means he gets the bird pointed and I get to take a shot. If he's honest, the transition back to more gentlemanly birds will be an easy one! Oh yeah, don't expect to get most of them pointed. If it were that easy, we wouldn't chase them!
Last edited:
Well said! I hunted the other day in Nebraska with my two seasoned GSP's and a friend with his to Llewellyn's one of which is only 8 months old. The plan was to only shoot pointer birds to reinforce the older dogs and help teach the pup. We went nearly all day with only two roosters pointed and one killed until our last walk of the evening. Picking the right cover at the right time of day and playing the wind right makes a world of difference when getting pointed roosters. I tend to shy away from heavier cover except to push birds out into thinner cover where points tend to be easier to get for my dogs. Stealth also helps too. If the birds are already running before the dogs get close the chances of getting a good point and flush go down. We ended the day with a walk lasting 45 minutes with a dozen solid points between four dogs and the 8 month old Llewellyn pointing my buddies last bird of his limit and held until the rooster got nervous from the approaching gun. It was a very rewarding way to hunt and we ended up limited out which was an additional bonus to watching the dogs pin birds.
wolfcreeknc
Active member
I am into my 5th year with a pointer so it is relatively new to me. We are learning together. Not living where we have pheasants or really any great game birds locally, it is tough to get much bird time with him. What I have learned is his "moving" points. As he gets birdy he tends to stop, point and then relocate. As this starts happening I know I need to be ready at any time for the wily rooster to bust before my Britt has a chance to "pin him down" on point.
Just my two bits.
Wolf
Just my two bits.
Wolf
reddog
Well-known member
When Im hunting with a partner, we seldom hunt together, but we actually are. We'll take off opposite directions, and meet up at a pinch point somewhere in between. Maybe even a couple times in the same quarter. Basically, we're herding them a little. The birds running out in front of him, run into me, and it confuses them, and vice versa. Most of the time, we are not even in eye contact with each other. Theyre cagey critters most time, but the key to gettting them to stop, is to pinch them. They can be 1/4 mile ahead of a guy and a dog, once they know youre in the field.
And, they are not always in the heaviest cover, once they know youre coming. Some will dive deeper into the cattails and that doesnt bode well for a pointing dog, but alot of them will head to shorter cover, and particularly up on top of a hill where they can see whats going on.
And, they are not always in the heaviest cover, once they know youre coming. Some will dive deeper into the cattails and that doesnt bode well for a pointing dog, but alot of them will head to shorter cover, and particularly up on top of a hill where they can see whats going on.
Dakotazeb
Well-known member
I find it very difficult to hunt a field loaded with birds. Too much scent and it makes it hard for the dog to pinpoint a bird. Whenever I find a field with a lot of birds I like to bust them up and get them spread out. Then go into the field and find the singles. The singles will hold better than when they are bunched. As far as your dogs there just is not substitute for experience. I always have said I'm fortunate to live in SD so I can get my dog on a lot of birds year round. My Brittany is 6 years old (soon to be 7) and really in her prime. She has the game figured out. I prefer hunting CRP where I can let her run as she has some big wheels. This is usually how it works. She hits fresh scent and goes on point. She then waits for me to get up to her. If the bird has moved she will then start tracking it at a walking pace. When she is closing in and the scent gets stronger she will again point. We may go through this 10 times until either we pin the bird down or it finally runs out in front and flushes out of range. But if I get up to her and she remains steady I better be ready as there is a bird very close by. It's been a hoot hunting behind her.
Crossing shot
New member
Good advice. Lots of tines my dog cannot see me. If I do not see a dog every five minutes, I will take out my hawk screamer and make a couple hawk screams. Saves my dog the effort of cutting my trail and hunting me instead of birds. Hopefully the screams will help keep those roosters on the ground.
I also trust the dog and let it pick the short term direction. Straight lines usually bad idea. Random and stopping better.
I also trust the dog and let it pick the short term direction. Straight lines usually bad idea. Random and stopping better.
AtTheMurph
Well-known member
Lots of good advice given. I really agree with the quiet approach and trying to pinch birds when possible. Later in the season having many birds bust out ahead is just part of the game, I dont think it matters what dog you have as far as pointer or flusher. Some conditions such as weather, cover and time of day will affect this behavior but you cant control a lot of this and have to be patient and work for the birds that are holding.
SetterNut
New member
There has been some really good points made in these posts.
I would add a couple things.
In CRP or taller grass, I like to run two dogs of different ranges. I find the birds tend to try to hide more (but a lot of them still run). But your dogs have to back each other at a distance, creepers on the back will often flush the bird.
It takes a dog a while to learn how to relocate and pin down a running rooster. There really isn't much you can do to help out this process, but you can make it much harder for the dog to learn if you don't try to direct the dog. There are going to be some birds bumped and some will flush wild, that is part of the learning process, just sit back and watch your dog learn.
But you don't want to shoot birds that are intentionally bumped by your dog, or you will teach them that bumping birds is what you want them to do.
Have fun, and give your dog a chance to learn. Be fair, not all pheasants will be able to be pointed even by the most experience pheasant expert dog.
I would add a couple things.
In CRP or taller grass, I like to run two dogs of different ranges. I find the birds tend to try to hide more (but a lot of them still run). But your dogs have to back each other at a distance, creepers on the back will often flush the bird.
It takes a dog a while to learn how to relocate and pin down a running rooster. There really isn't much you can do to help out this process, but you can make it much harder for the dog to learn if you don't try to direct the dog. There are going to be some birds bumped and some will flush wild, that is part of the learning process, just sit back and watch your dog learn.
But you don't want to shoot birds that are intentionally bumped by your dog, or you will teach them that bumping birds is what you want them to do.
Have fun, and give your dog a chance to learn. Be fair, not all pheasants will be able to be pointed even by the most experience pheasant expert dog.
UltimateBirdDog
New member
I am new to this site and reading this post made me go WOW! Tons of great information in this post, great to see a community sharing and discussing a topic.
The one thing I would like to reiterate is SetterNut's statement of not shooting intentionally bumped birds. I have seen guys do this and then start questioning why all of sudden their dog continues to bump birds. It can be frustrating and at times seems like your not going to get a shot at a single bird. Patients will pay off in the long run.
This year I am hunting with a 3 year old dog that was solid until I was deployed and was not hunted last season. Now he is creeping when I get past him. Also will be my son's first year hunting. I know for a fact these two things are going to lower my bird count. However seeing both of them develop in the sport and having them as well educated hunting partners is more important and much more rewarding in the long run.
Keep positive and get the dogs in the field as much as possible. Not only will the dogs learn, however if you pay attention you will learn from the dog.
The one thing I would like to reiterate is SetterNut's statement of not shooting intentionally bumped birds. I have seen guys do this and then start questioning why all of sudden their dog continues to bump birds. It can be frustrating and at times seems like your not going to get a shot at a single bird. Patients will pay off in the long run.
This year I am hunting with a 3 year old dog that was solid until I was deployed and was not hunted last season. Now he is creeping when I get past him. Also will be my son's first year hunting. I know for a fact these two things are going to lower my bird count. However seeing both of them develop in the sport and having them as well educated hunting partners is more important and much more rewarding in the long run.
Keep positive and get the dogs in the field as much as possible. Not only will the dogs learn, however if you pay attention you will learn from the dog.
Dakotazeb
Well-known member
Shooting intentionally bumped birds?? I don't know if my dogs intentionally bump birds but birds do get bumped sometimes before the dog has a chance to point them. I call these wild flushes. And I know there are purists out there that will not shoot a bird unless it is properly pointed for fear of the dog developing a bad habit of breaking and flushing birds. I've been hunting behind pointing dogs for 20 years and have shot all those wild flushes. It has never had any effect on my dog's steadiness.
dvmweb
Member
Grew up hunting phez in Southern Michigan. Never had a good dog.
Now I live in Northern Michigan grouse woods. And I have two pretty good gshps.
We go to North Dakota once per year to hunt the pheasant. I love it. The dogs love it.
I learned to be quiet. No bells, beepers, talking, coughing, ... quiet. I use a Garmin Alpha.
We try to hunt early so the birds are roosting, when we can.
We try to hunt into the wind. And work slowly as possible.
We'll have 4-6 hunters in our group, so we too try to pinch the birds.
We manage to get our birds. We don't get close enough to all of them, but we do pretty well.
Now I live in Northern Michigan grouse woods. And I have two pretty good gshps.
We go to North Dakota once per year to hunt the pheasant. I love it. The dogs love it.
I learned to be quiet. No bells, beepers, talking, coughing, ... quiet. I use a Garmin Alpha.
We try to hunt early so the birds are roosting, when we can.
We try to hunt into the wind. And work slowly as possible.
We'll have 4-6 hunters in our group, so we too try to pinch the birds.
We manage to get our birds. We don't get close enough to all of them, but we do pretty well.
KSBrittman
Active member
Exactly how my Britt Sally does it , I feel like i am hunting mountain lions , my girl gets on a track and I stay with my dog ( thanks goodnes at a walking pace )
And most the time the bird comes up in gun range , most the times 10'yds ahead of the dog , occasionally buried up under cover and I have to kick it out . Man I can't wait till this weekend !!!!
Quailman
New member
This is why I am constantly on this web site. Great information and tips from each and every contributor. Thanks and keep em coming. My daughter, Nattie, and I are out every chance we get and she loves pheasant and dove hunting. The more successful we are the more she loves it. She will be 18 in December and still likes to hang around and chase birds with me.:thumbsup:
birdshooter
Well-known member
Took the words right out of my mouth Zeb. This was the problem when I hunted Mott for all those years. So much scent the dogs (even experienced dogs) were on sensory overload so-to speak. Bust up the large flocks and hunt down the singles. Results were usually birds that held much better for points.
Normally if wild birds have a place to run, they will. The key will always be to force the birds into an area or end of a field where the cover runs out and they are forced to stay put or flush. The skittish ones are normally always the ones that will bail early while some will try and wait you out.
birdshooter
Well-known member
I agree. Big difference between shooting wild flushes vs shooting a bird that a pointer intentionally puts to the wing by himself. The same would go for a dog who makes an initial point and then breaks and takes the bird out. A good rule of thumb to use is if the bird flushes at NO FAULT of the dog, IMO it's fair game.
Ranger Rick
Member
The flushing dog guys always say a pointing dog is useless on pheasants. They just don't know any better, so I give them a pass.
But pointing dog guys saying they don't get many roosters over points is puzzling. Sure, the pheasant is a track star. As others have said, I've worked some pheasants for long distances. If the cover is conducive to running [open areas underneath] they'll keep going until they hit something that holds them. Also, they'll run way up ahead and flush far out of gun range. That's just the pheasant.
But along with those birds that run and flush way out, there are always stupid ones that hold. And some that will run some, then hold. It's not unusual for my dog to point and relocate several times before I'm walking in and getting a flush. He figures it out and I get a lot of enjoyment watching him working the wind to find that running bird. He's amazing, as were the two I had before him.
I had a setter some years ago that was professionally trained to hold until physically released. That was a real pain in heavy cover. The last two I've let go figure things out for themselves. As long as they have body scent they'll hold. If the bird has run off they'll wait for me to catch up, then work to relocate.
My recent annual Iowa hunt we shot a limit of 12 roosters each day. 9-10 of the 12 each day were over staunch points. 2 were of the "wild flush" variety, birds that had been pointed, but at not fault of the dog, had run and flushed for the gun.
Probably the best scene was Max goes on point the other end of a small red maple thicket along a stream. I walked through the middle. Friend on the right, two on the left. As I come out the end, back into thick grasses, Max is there locked up tight. I get within 20' and one flushes right - boom. Another step one flushes left - boom. Another step and one goes straight away - boom I drop that one. I call dead bird to Max, but he holds point. I take a couple more steps and one I walked right by flushes behind me - boom, I drop that one too. 4 roosters over a solid point. That's great stuff. I know darned well those roosters ran through that thicket and then held once they came to the tall, thick grass again. There was pheasant droppings all over underneath the red maple.
But pointing dog guys saying they don't get many roosters over points is puzzling. Sure, the pheasant is a track star. As others have said, I've worked some pheasants for long distances. If the cover is conducive to running [open areas underneath] they'll keep going until they hit something that holds them. Also, they'll run way up ahead and flush far out of gun range. That's just the pheasant.
But along with those birds that run and flush way out, there are always stupid ones that hold. And some that will run some, then hold. It's not unusual for my dog to point and relocate several times before I'm walking in and getting a flush. He figures it out and I get a lot of enjoyment watching him working the wind to find that running bird. He's amazing, as were the two I had before him.
I had a setter some years ago that was professionally trained to hold until physically released. That was a real pain in heavy cover. The last two I've let go figure things out for themselves. As long as they have body scent they'll hold. If the bird has run off they'll wait for me to catch up, then work to relocate.
My recent annual Iowa hunt we shot a limit of 12 roosters each day. 9-10 of the 12 each day were over staunch points. 2 were of the "wild flush" variety, birds that had been pointed, but at not fault of the dog, had run and flushed for the gun.
Probably the best scene was Max goes on point the other end of a small red maple thicket along a stream. I walked through the middle. Friend on the right, two on the left. As I come out the end, back into thick grasses, Max is there locked up tight. I get within 20' and one flushes right - boom. Another step one flushes left - boom. Another step and one goes straight away - boom I drop that one. I call dead bird to Max, but he holds point. I take a couple more steps and one I walked right by flushes behind me - boom, I drop that one too. 4 roosters over a solid point. That's great stuff. I know darned well those roosters ran through that thicket and then held once they came to the tall, thick grass again. There was pheasant droppings all over underneath the red maple.
Last edited:
Pointer
Only my third year behind my pointer, and eighth year out here. The only things that seem to make a difference for me are, hunt alone or one other person, park a ways a way, try to hunt upwind on the first pass, dont talk to the dog ever, stop every 10 to 20 yards, let the dog hunt, and hunt hard in wet weather. I shoot at any bird in range. I get many solid points on hens and some on roosters. My dog is three. There is no substitute for experience. Im just coming to the end of a ten days hunt on mostly public. Had chances at a limit most days except two 40mph wind days when i stayed in. Im no stranger to missing. I learn something every trip and dog gets better. Shes even starting to retrieve, but thats another issue. Every dog and hunter has their own way. Its been a really good trip.
Only my third year behind my pointer, and eighth year out here. The only things that seem to make a difference for me are, hunt alone or one other person, park a ways a way, try to hunt upwind on the first pass, dont talk to the dog ever, stop every 10 to 20 yards, let the dog hunt, and hunt hard in wet weather. I shoot at any bird in range. I get many solid points on hens and some on roosters. My dog is three. There is no substitute for experience. Im just coming to the end of a ten days hunt on mostly public. Had chances at a limit most days except two 40mph wind days when i stayed in. Im no stranger to missing. I learn something every trip and dog gets better. Shes even starting to retrieve, but thats another issue. Every dog and hunter has their own way. Its been a really good trip.