A serious case of lock jaw

C

carpfisher

New member
So I have a very nice 8 YO English Setter that is just a great dog, hunts well, points, hunts dead and retrieves. That is where the problem is. He brings the birds in just find but has a serious case of lockjaw. He doesn't crush or chew on the bird. He just won't let go, most of the time. Some times he brings it in and drops it just fine. Most of the time, not. I thought it was if the other hunter was close he was getting protecrive of my bird but that isn't it. Even if the other guys aren't close, he is still won't let go.
I don't want to nick him for fear of causing other problems.
On a canned hunt last year, he performed perfectly. In SD a few weeks ago every bird but one was an adventure in trying to get him to release.
Any suggestions?
 
To start, don't be in a big hurry to take/reach for the bird. Pet him, call him the good boy he is. Once he has relaxed, if he still hasn't given up the bird himself, reach around and grab the flap of skin in his flank and lift. Most of the time you won't have to lift much to get the desired response. Other times you may end up lifting him off of the ground to get there.

When you have more time, you could go through a partial force fetch drill and teach him "drop it". That will give you a command to reinforce later.
 
As above . . . praise then the flank lift. It's golden when it comes to prompting an immediate release.
 
duckn66 said:
You can also blow into their nose to get them to release. Sounds funny but it works.
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This reminded me of a funny story (sort of). A buddy of mine was trying the blow in the nose to get his Viszla to drop his wifes shoe. Damn dog dropped the shoe and latched onto his nose. I strangled the dog till he released his nose. That little hungarian princes is still around.
 
duckn66 said:
You can also blow into their nose to get them to release. Sounds funny but it works.
Click to expand...

I actually did think of that last week and tried but it didn't work.
The flank lift has worked in the past also, but not last week. I also tried an ear pinch, no joy.
Praise and attention did work once.

I think I will try the let him carry it for a while routine. We are hunting again next week. Its a Put and Take hunt here in Indiana and I have all day to hunt so time is on our side.
More to follow! its always an adventure with our best friends, isn't it!
 
I tried blowing in the nose two dogs ago. She jerked upwards, popping me in the mouth - hard, a good old-fashioned head butt. I didn't like that very much.
 
I like to reach onto their lower jaw and place the lip of the dog onto his teeth and press the lip to their teeth. It always works for me. It forces them to open their mouth and drop whatever is in there. They do not clamp down so you do not have to worry about your finger getting bit off. This weekend, a lost dog that decided to hunt with us retrieved a pheasant for me. She wouldn't drop the bird and I reached down and pressed her lip onto her bottom teeth gently and she immediately released the bird.

I guess a better description of the process is to reach down with your left hand onto their lower jaw. Using your thumb, push the lip up and roll it over onto their teeth and gently press their lip down onto their teeth. They will release every time... so far.
 
paidin said:
I like to reach onto their lower jaw and place the lip of the dog onto his teeth and press the lip to their teeth. It always works for me. It forces them to open their mouth and drop whatever is in there. They do not clamp down so you do not have to worry about your finger getting bit off. This weekend, a lost dog that decided to hunt with us retrieved a pheasant for me. She wouldn't drop the bird and I reached down and pressed her lip onto her bottom teeth gently and she immediately released the bird.

I guess a better description of the process is to reach down with your left hand onto their lower jaw. Using your thumb, push the lip up and roll it over onto their teeth and gently press their lip down onto their teeth. They will release every time... so far.
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A lost dog hunted with you!? What did you do with him(her?)!!?
 
carpfisher said:
A lost dog hunted with you!? What did you do with him(her?)!!?
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funny you ask. Here is the video of the dog retrieving my bird. Our dogs are german shorthairs. This one is some kinda yellow lab type dog. Good retriever though.
http://contour.com/stories/first-rooster-killed-for-the-day

we eventually found the owners who told us that was their friend's dog and they were from Denver Co. Their friend wanted them to take his dog out hunting and I guess his dog liked hunting with us better :)

In the video, you can see that she was not putting the bird down right away and I reached down around her head and under her jaw and forced her to drop it by curling her lip over her bottom teeth. The whole process took about 2 seconds and she did not hesitate to drop the bird nor was she hurt in any way.
 
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excellent results from all aspects. I'll give it a try.
 
One of my Spaniels is a rescue dog who was not even leash-trained when I got him at 15 months. The previous morons played tug-of-war with him and obviously they had another dog who liked to get in on the action too. I have been able to make great strides in getting him to release by holding the bird,but not pulling at it. At same time I praise him mightily while repeating the release command. When he does release, more praise and I then ask him to sit,and give the bird right back to him. I now have him delivering to hand as long as there are no other dogs near.
 
Everyone has their own ideas on training. I do not believe in forcing a dog to do anything. Especially when the dog is in possesion of a bird. My past experience tells me to convince the dog that what I want the dog to do is what he wants to do anyway. If you have to use force to train a dog, that dog might just be a good housepet,and perhaps not worth training as a sporting dog.
 
Sam was "professionally" trained. I acquired him when he was 5 form a friend who couldn't afford to keep him anymore. He has done this since I have owned him.
Forcing hiim to do something is what I am concrned about. He is a great filed dog except for this issue.
We'll see how he does on monday. The unforunate part is like most folks these days, we just don't hunt and get him on birds enough and i am sure that contributes to the problem. I suspect he is so proud of doing the job what is correctly in his mind, that he doesn't want to let go.
 
well, we had our hunt yesterday and Sam did a great job overall. Pointed, retrieved, hunted dead. Even found a dead bird somebody else shot and apparently lost. But I tried all the tricks mentioned in the thread. My partner suggested letting him grab a bird and then tying his mouth closed until he tries to dumpt himself. Again, I am concerned any force training might have him blinking on retrieving birds so I am just gonne live with it. He is 8 and is pretty as set in his ways as I am!
 
I hate to see you give so easily. Generally the flank pinch works as mentioned by others. You could try holding his nose shut, if he can't breath he'll release the bird to catch a breath. Another thing to try is when you take the bird from him, push instead of pull. Push the bird firmly to the back of the mouth and turn. Right now he's being possessive. But it's a fine line between possessive and dominance. I would'nt want this escalate into something more serious, especially if he is around children. Some dogs test the pack order from time to time just to see if anything has changed.
 
force fetch is a tried and proven method with plenty of other benefits. i can't imagine stepping on a dog's toes as a training method.......if you don't want to FF yourself, take the dog to a trainer and have him do it, otherwise you are in for a lifetime of disappointment.
 
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