A serious case of lock jaw

hunter94 said:
force fetch is a tried and proven method with plenty of other benefits. i can't imagine stepping on a dog's toes as a training method.......if you don't want to FF yourself, take the dog to a trainer and have him do it, otherwise you are in for a lifetime of disappointment.
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Again my only point of reference is with the English Springer Spaniel which, undoubtably have a strong natural desire to retrieve. I am a disciple of the late,great Kenneth Roebuck, who's attitude on the forced fetch was quoted thusly " Any dog which needs to be forced to fetch, or hold a bird, is not worth training. A good home should be sourced for this dog, and you should try again."
 
ranchodeluxe said:
Again my only point of reference is with the English Springer Spaniel which, undoubtably have a strong natural desire to retrieve. I am a disciple of the late,great Kenneth Roebuck, who's attitude on the forced fetch was quoted thusly " Any dog which needs to be forced to fetch, or hold a bird, is not worth training. A good home should be sourced for this dog, and you should try again."
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Roebuck is patently, 100% wrong.
 
As High Tail Setters will tell you, an English setter has so few oportunities to fetch a bird, they hate to gaive it up. :cheers:.
 
Uncle Buck,
If I didn't know how good my dog is, I might be insulted and have to slap you across the chops with a white glove!:cheers:
Roebuck is definately wrong. A dog is sum of his parts and should not be judged by a single skill. Sam is a great dog except for this and also a well loved pet/house dog. For those who would trade him out for this, your dogs must just be tools and nothing else.
I will continue to work him but he is mine and he ain't goin' anywhere!

Greg
 
hunter94 said:
Roebuck is patently, 100% wrong.
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That's why he is famous World-wide as the Greatest flushing dog trainer who ever lived, and no-one has ever heard of you! MORON!
 
carpfisher said:
Uncle Buck,
If I didn't know how good my dog is, I might be insulted and have to slap you across the chops with a white glove!:cheers:
Roebuck is definately wrong. A dog is sum of his parts and should not be judged by a single skill. Sam is a great dog except for this and also a well loved pet/house dog. For those who would trade him out for this, your dogs must just be tools and nothing else.
I will continue to work him but he is mine and he ain't goin' anywhere!

Greg[/QUOT E]

Ya, just tools, Got my first at fifteen when I gave a "hunter" the choice between handing over his dog or taking an ass-kicking for beating him when he lay asleep in front of the fireplace. He thought he could salvage his ego in front of his hi-dollar buddies. Dog lived with me until he was fifteen, never was forced to hunt again.
Second one lived fourteen years with me. Third one ( a Roebuck dog) lived with me for 13 years. Fourth and fifth are being used as tools to hold-down the motel bed right now. The fifth one I rescued from a tool called the green needle, because he was abandoned in a kill shelter due to a "high energy level." This "tool" put a limit of birds in the bag today, while outshining three "experienced" dogs (not Springers) of impeccable breeding. NONE of my dogs have ever been FORCED to do anything! Reason: Kenneth Roebuck! Mr. Roebuck,may you REST IN PEACE. I owe it all to you!
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ranchodeluxe said:
That's why he is famous World-wide as the Greatest flushing dog trainer who ever lived, and no-one has ever heard of you! MORON!
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you sir, know precious little about dog training if you don't understand force fetch.....i will ignore your juvenile response, have a nice Thanksgiving.
 
carpfisher said:
Uncle Buck,
If I didn't know how good my dog is, I might be insulted and have to slap you across the chops with a white glove!:cheers:
Roebuck is definately wrong. A dog is sum of his parts and should not be judged by a single skill. Sam is a great dog except for this and also a well loved pet/house dog. For those who would trade him out for this, your dogs must just be tools and nothing else.
I will continue to work him but he is mine and he ain't goin' anywhere!

Greg
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Wuz just try'n to put a burr in someone else's saddle. He hasn't seen it yet.
 
hunter94 said:
you sir, know precious little about dog training if you don't understand force fetch.....i will ignore your juvenile response, have a nice Thanksgiving.
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I am familiar with force fetch, just never found it necessary, forcing a dog to learn by putting him in discomfort is simply foolish. And Happy Thanksgiving to you.
 
there are a few things i definately beleive in and ff is one of them my fav dog is an ep and most hate to retreive but once they are ff to retreive they are one of the best i also beleive in the string around the toe nails method training they learn quick!!!! like ive said before on here competitive field trialers cant have a bird dropped halfway back or half assed retreived ff is the only way for consistent retreives
 
only a pointer said:
there are a few things i definately beleive in and ff is one of them my fav dog is an ep and most hate to retreive but once they are ff to retreive they are one of the best i also beleive in the string around the toe nails method training they learn quick!!!! like ive said before on here competitive field trialers cant have a bird dropped halfway back or half assed retreived ff is the only way for consistent retreives
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Maybe that's why I hunt Spaniels, don't have to force them to do anything.
 
and thats fine some people like a flushing dog some lke a dog that cracks his tail going really fast in afield and come to a screaching sliding stop and snap on point. Back to your way of not ff i can see that type of trainig on areally soft dog i dont know the temperment of a spaniel can they handle pressure?
 
hunter94 said:
Gun-Dog Training Spaniels and Retrievers
by Kenneth C. Roebuck - Copyright © 1982
Stackpole Books
ISBN 0-8117-0778-4


we've come a long way in 29 years......:thumbsup:
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What's changed with the dog in 29 years? While y'all continue to preach the virtues of force fetch to inexperienced handlers, I think I'll head out with my rescue dog for another limit.
 
I am really enjoying this great read but I am getting alittle impatient... We hit the name calling in caps already but I want to see my dad will beat up your dad soon!
Well enough of this I'm going to take my adopted son out hunting!
 
1-16 year old Toyota pickup: $500.00
4.4 gal gasoline: $15.44
1-Benelli Super 90: $750.00
1-Throway dog with three UNFORCED retrieves: PRICELESS!




I'm done now
 
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