A new fetish....S x S's

benelli-banger

Well-known member
Don't ask me why, been drooling over s x s's lately. Been looking at the CSMC website, the Cabela's gun library, the Shooting Sportsman gunroom, etc. Been having lots of fun looking , but have few stores near me that actually even carry them (Puglisi's gun emporium being the exception). The options are endless...sidelock vs. boxlock, splinter forend vs. beavertail, new vs. "classic" used, small gauge vs. large guage, single trigger vs. double trigger, etc. I think I want a 16 guage, boxlock, splinter forend, double trigger...but, I don't know anything else. Buck, I have admired one or more side by sides that you have, which I believe may have been AYA? That new RBL by CSMC seems nice, but you can't walk into a store and pick one up and know exactly what you're getting. I think I want new, and I would like to stay in the range of $3500 or under. Wisdom and opinions would be appreciated. FWIW, I have shot one on just one occasion, and I did poorly. Makes sense to want one, huh?
 
I have had SxS from time to time since 1962. A few tips I will pass along. 1. Never look at the barrels. Learn to shoot it using the Rib Beads only. 2 When getting it fitted to fit you, make it 1/8-1/4 inch to short for you. Your hunting cloths will make up the difference. Go with whatever shortness you are comfortable with. It is a proven fact we can shoot guns that are to short better than too long. 3. This is a personal thing, I prefer auto-ejection. I like to get rid of the spent shells and reload as quickly as possible. Another bird may get up and I'm empty. 4. Again this is your choice, get 28 inch barrels. 26 inch come up and point quick. But they do nothing to help your swing. They encourage you to stop your swing. The barrel weight of the 28 inch help you to follow through. Enough , any more questions just ask.---Bob
 
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Sidelock/boxlock, splinter/beaver tail, single trigger/double trigger, new/used, 26" barrels/28" barrels. Lots of decisions to make. We can all give you advice which is pretty much our own personal preference. But what really counts is what YOU like! What fits YOU best.

Unlike Bob I personally prefer 26" barrels. I also like a beaver tail forend, a single trigger and auto ejectors. But that's me. I don't expect you to like the same things. I like Fords and you may prefer Chevys. Are you getting the point? There are no right and no wrong answers. And we can't make the decision for you. But it sure is fun trying. :)

By the way. The 16 ga. is a great choice. Just bought myself a 16 ga. Citori. 26" barrels of course.
 
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Dakotazeb, thanks for you input as well. I picked up a Citori Gran Lightning 16 gauge about 3 years ago and really like it. I tend to use it for sharptails, ruffed grouse, and my early season pheasant hunting, as well as skeet and sporting clays. The main thing that I agree with Bob on is the fit; from there, it is more subjective. I am inclined to go with slightly longer barrels, but if I found a gun I liked that fit me with shorter barrels I would probably buy it. I think I am best off picking something up used...seems like a used AYA #4/53, for example, can be had for 20% less than a new one, at least as far as Cabela's is concerned. Thanks for the input, hope the birds are hanging in there.
 
#1 Go the 28 " barrells unless you want a total woods grouse sxs for follow thru as Bob pointed out. Spanish guns not specifically made for the American market actually have metric measurements and are not quite 28", so do not get confused. They still call them 28. Anything that says Churchill XXV is
25", in reference to the British guns the Spanish copy. AYA and others used to make them, not sure if they still do.

Guage may not be your main concern. Fit should be. Do not buy a gun you have not thrown to your shoulder and also consider what you will be wearing. Most used sxs will have a pad attached, rubber or leather covered. If you buy a used one, make sure the stock has not been reduced too much or you may lose some value.

Buy the way, my Destino , which I have not yet shot, comes with a removal wood buttplate and an interchangable rubber pad. Very sexy.

None of my sxs have an installed pad they are bare wood with checkering or plastic "cap". I use slip on recoil pads (Pachmyr) when wearing light clothing and take the pad off if wearing some thing heavier.

You might want to look at the Fausti guns. In your price range plus have choke tubes.And they do make some in the English style Most of the Spanish guns do not come with tubes and aftermarket addition could de value the gun. I have a Ugartecha that oddly enough has an IC and FULL tubes.

I do not look at anything but the bird when I am shooting.No beads, no barrel, no nuttin'. I mount the gun and pull the trigger very quickly once it hits my cheek, which like any gun better be down on the stock.The follow thru is in the swing and you are essentially "aiming " at the bird with your left arm right index finger just like pointing at something. If you have any hand to eye co-ordination the birds coming down. I actually have to think more about the straight aways and keep the bird just on top of the barrels. It's point and shoot.

One thing about stocks on some guns. They have "cast off " for right handers. The stock is bent to varying degrees to align the eyes over the barrels. I do not think you will see any of this on new guns imported to say Cabela's as the stocks can be bent aftermarket and it is best proportioned to the shooter.

Not trying to scare anyone with all the variables, but next --- Sidelock or boxlock, single or double trigger!!!

The 4/53 at Cabela's could be a good start.
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FORD F-650 PICTURE
 
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Thanks for the input, Buck...as far as Fausti, I believe they have an ad with 3 pretty good looking ladies, right? That could be a problem...I can't handle all 3 of them, plus my wife and the current mistresses. But, I will look at their guns, and guns only. Hope all is well....better put on your sunblock...hit 70 out there today????
 
Buck--assuming proper fit, what makes would you look at in that price range? Limit that to companies that are still making the guns in question.
 
BB I would go with the Fausti, I have one in an O/U man what a great gun.---Bob
 
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Uncle Buck has given you a lot of good advice. I'll just add a few thoughts from my own SxS journey over the last several years.

If you are going to go with the splinter forearm, you'll probably want to go with and English style (straight) grip, or at most a gentle pistol grip. Don Zutz had a lot to say about this and the placement of the hands relative to the line of the barrels in his book The Double Shotgun.

Personally, I'm a big fan of splinter forearms, straight grips, no choke tubes, ~ 28" or longer barrels, cast, and two triggers. Factory choke tubes add weight out front and that defeats some of the game gun handling that draws people to a SxS. I really like having two triggers and the instant choke selection. It really becomes so automatic that you will shake your head in amazement when you realize what you just did. The 16 is a great gauge, but you'll be much happier with it if you reload. Side by sides often need a bit straighter stock to shoot to the same point of impact as an O/U, due to the greater downward flex of the barrels from recoil. Be careful not to get a gun that is too light. Most men would shoot best with something over 6 lbs. Most 16s and 12s would fit that.

My recommendation would be to start at a much lower price point than $3500 and find out what you really like. Also, if you haven't shot a SxS much, it is going to be hard to tell what really fits you at first.

A lot of doubles out there don't shoot both barrels to the same point of impact. Smaller gauges generally have greater problems. Most people never test. Most guns are not so far off to be a disaster, but some certainly are. One advantage of buying a used gun is you can often get permission to test for barrel convergence.

I love hunting with my side by sides and believe that I shoot better with them. They seem to fit a more instinctive - see the bird, shoot the bird - style of shooting and for game that usually is a good thing.
 
Oh golly. Price range---Fausti I'll take the lady in the middle. The top one looks older and the bottom a little skanky. Go with the class.

The Fausti Style looks like a good place to get started if you can still find a straight stock splinter fore end model. Cabela', who alledgedly had an exclusive on these guns had them as low as $1,499 last spring--now $1,600 to $1,800. I went thru their gun libraries today and note far less inventory than a month ago, yet they had a lot more on the rack in Mitchell and Owatanna the last two months when I visited do not know whats going on there.
The Fausti Dea is in the $3,000 area. Saw a couple at Owatanna and Mitchell.
They have sideplates to give them a sidelock look, but are boxlocks, not sidelocks. Nice guns tho. They have choke tubes. I am not sure tubes could really slow a gun down as suggested by the small amout of additional weight, but have not shot one with tubes so will not dispute. (Choke tubes do not weigh much and they replace removed metal?)
The AYA 4/53 at Mitchell looks like a decent deal for the $. I beleive I looked at this gun and found it decent. If you want to get in a little deep, that 16 Grulla is a honey and I have had it in my hands. They have dropped it a grand from what it started at. It has some of my drool on it. (Doesn't really make it worth anymore.)
If you want to see what was a nice gun ruined by some stock mods, take a look at the UGARTECHA at Mitchell. Still a nice shooter if some one was interested.
You will see a lot of BSA Royals at Cabelas and they have gotten cheaper. I would guess they are made by Zabala which make reasonably servicible firearms, but I really do not like the checkering Fleur De Lais style tho reminiscent of American style Winchester, Fox etc. As an investment I would look higher.
My guess is the Galazan/Conneticutt Arms guns are based on Fausti actions dressed up in the US. Seems these guys have increased from original prices, but I am not up to speed yet on the variations. I think Dakota Arms are built from imported Italian boxlock actions also.
Theoretically, sidelocks are more expensive and desirable than box locks. The Italians have blown that concept apart by largely sticking to boxlocks with elaborate engraving and fancy wood not previously seen on boxlocks. Boxlocks are simpler, probably stronger and cheaper than sidelocks to build and repair. Sidelocks provide more suface area to engrave, are hand made requiring many more manhours of work and therefore have more snob appeal, tho once again the Italians have crashed the party with their $20,000 to $40,000 guns. Previously only British Sidelocks acheived such heights.
Sidelocks are lighter and have a slimer profile where the action meets the stock.
AYA makes most models in two action variations, Round Body and standard. The styles are deferentiated where the action meets the stock. The std will generally have a "tear drop" at this point tho the round body has a slimmer grip at this point. Will tend to find more sidelocks with this feature, tho some boxlocks are going that route also. It is a fairly new development in terms of the history of doubles. Round bodys are slightly lighter.
Do not overlook Merkel, Kimber Valier and the S&W Elite Gold. The later two are made in Turkey, but are of better quality than CZ/Huglu, tho I am not
knocking CZ for the money There was an Elite Gold at Gander in Lino Lakes for $1,600 some time ago and I wish I had felt in condition to buy it. Shortly there after I found the Franchi attached for $200 more.
Next missive---chomper lump, sideclips, case hardining or coinfinish!!!
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St. Catharines Components Plant
 
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BB if you want to buy and get a FFL to have a gun shipped to check in with CDNN Sports in Texas I believe. They have some terrific prices on guns they should be coming out with anew catalog soon. Call them and they will send you one. I don't have the address now but you can it from google.---Bob
 
Buck--your drool is valuable and you know it. I have been collecting samples for some time now...why do you think I hang out with you? Seriously, thanks all for the info and advice...very interesting and enjoyable, if a bit confusing as well. Have a good one! Sincerely, Bennelli Banger (for now)...soon to be, "Double Trouble"....
 
Buck,
Have you had an opportunity to look at the new Franchi Destino? I realize it only comes in 20 ga. and 26" barrels but still looks like a nice piece in the pictures. Not sure what the price is since they don't list it on the web. They say a unique Destino model will be introduced each year. Since 2008 was the first year I wonder what the 2009 model will bring.
http://www.franchiusa.com/firearms/destino.php
 
Buck,
Have you had an opportunity to look at the new Franchi Destino? I realize it only comes in 20 ga. and 26" barrels but still looks like a nice piece in the pictures. Not sure what the price is since they don't list it on the web. They say a unique Destino model will be introduced each year. Since 2008 was the first year I wonder what the 2009 model will bring.
http://www.franchiusa.com/firearms/destino.php

I have one, purchased last Oct. at Scheels in Sioux Falls. See the attachment in my last post. They had two so I got my pick on wood. Definitely the nicest piece of wood on any gun I own. This years is supposed to be a 28ga..
Here is a close up of the wood.
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GS500E
 
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For you people that want it here is the link to CDNN Sports. There contact info is at the bottom of the page. They put out a quarterly catalog of guns. You buy it shave them ship it to a store or friend with a FFL. I think the last gun I got was $22.50 S&H The dealer charged me $25.00 to do the paperwork and for the use of his FFL. They really have some very nice guns. I got a Fausti Gold 20 gauge O/U for 799.00. By the time I paid all the fees, extra choke tube. I spent about 850.00. It is a much better and nicer Fausti O/U shotgun than my son got at Cabala's for around $1000.00

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/

Bob
 
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