4wd vs. 2wd with limited-slip

quail hound said:
I think a lot of people have misconceptions regarding LS vs. locker. LS are made for the street and lockers are for off road. A LS will no doubt let you down when you need it the most, say if one tire has all the traction and one has none (one tire on the road and one on a slick shoulder). A 2wd with a locker (either selectable or automatic) will do well on and off road but maybe scetchy on an icy raod. Its a toss up but a 4wd with no traction aid and a 2wd with a locker will spin the same amount of tires.
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Limited Slip is made for off road too. They are designed to provide equal traction to both wheels after a minimal amount of slip on one wheel has occurred. You can put one wheel on ice and the other on dry pavement and leave a black stripe on the pavement if you jump on it.
Lockers are for off road only due to their function being to "lock" the axles together into a spool configuration generally by an air powered piston. You need to have poor traction with them to allow slippage at the wheels to relieve the binding that occurs from going around corners. That same slippage makes them no good for ice covered roads because whenever you go around a corner one wheel breaks loose and slips.
Even though a standard 4wd will only drive one wheel in front and one in back it is still better than a 2WD with limited slip or a locker because there is often different traction conditions on each end of the truck. Get the rear end into a gumbo mud hole with just a rear drive and two wheels spinning will just dig you deeper faster while 4Wd will pull you out.
A couple of years ago coming back to California from Montana I had to drive in 4wd in a snow storm from East of Bozeman to Wells, Nv. being over 600 miles. I couldn't/wouldn't have done that with a 2WD no matter what traction device I had in the rear end. You can't beat 4Wd in the snow.
As far as the anchor, be sure and put a short length of chain or heavy rope on the back of the anchor to use to pull it out when you're done. A fluked anchor can dig very deep before it gets enough purchase to be of any help and often requires it to get hooked on a root or rock. Being able to pull it out backwards makes retrieval a snap.
 
Huh. I have a truck with an Eaton posi and one with an automatic locker (that opens and closes very smoothly). The posi left me stuck on a shoulder with one tire on the pavement and one in the mud, only 1 tire spinning. Put it up on the road and it will leave 2 healthy black marks. I guess my Eaton is a piece of junk.
 
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quail hound said:
Huh. I have a truck with an Eaton posi and one with an automatic locker (that opens and closes very smoothly). The posi left me stuck on a shoulder with one tire on the pavement and one in the mud, only 1 tire spinning. Put it up on the road and it will leave 2 healthy black marks. I guess my Eaton is a piece of junk.
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Sounds like the clutch packs are worn out on the Eaton. Spinning both wheels on pavement is based upon what traction is available to each wheel. You can do that all day with an open rear end if the traction is roughly equal. Hit the tires hard and get one spinning and only one will spin if the clutch packs are gone.
Here's some info on an auto locker:

Automatic Lockers offer the driver reliability and convenience without the hassle of wiring and/or an air system. This is the most common form of lockers on the trail today. When torque is applied, an internal mechanism locks both tires together. In the absence of torque, the locker automatically unlocks. This allows the vehicle to negotiate corners as normal, however in some situations based on load, drag, friction, and steepness of the trail, the locker may remain engaged making it difficult to corner. The locker is entirely contained within the differential, so you don't have to worry about air leaks or wiring trouble. Therefore, we recommend automatic lockers for their reliability and peace of mind: You know it is there and will engage automatically whenever traction is needed.

IMPORTANT for daily drivers: Automatic lockers, by their very nature, may engage in an unpredictable manner. This characteristic is important to understand for city & highway driving with automatic lockers installed in the rear differential. For example, if you are driving in the city and you turn a corner while accelerating, the locker will automatically engage causing both tires to rotate at the same speed. Your truck will likely chirp it's inside tire which may cause oversteer. If the driver ignores this, it will lead to excessive tire wear, and in extreme cases, it could lead to an uncontrollable spin out.
Sounds like more fun than a bucket of monkeys.:eek::)
 
Like I said my Eaton must be a piece of junk because it's almost brand new. What would happen if one tire was off the ground (almost the same scenario as one tire in mud). I don't care how much torque you apply, only one tire will spin. I'm an avid off roader and pulled out quite a few posi jeeps in 4wd where my stock locked z71 had gone in 2wd. Maybe the best solution (if you have the $) would be an Eaton elocker, posi until you hit the button.:cheers:
 
quail hound said:
Like I said my Eaton must be a piece of junk because it's almost brand new. What would happen if one tire was off the ground (almost the same scenario as one tire in mud). I don't care how much torque you apply, only one tire will spin. I'm an avid off roader and pulled out quite a few posi jeeps in 4wd where my stock locked z71 had gone in 2wd. Maybe the best solution (if you have the $) would be an Eaton elocker, posi until you hit the button.:cheers:
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What would happen if one tire was off the ground (almost the same scenario as one tire in mud). I don't care how much torque you apply, only one tire will spin.

If that is what your Eaton is doing then you're right, it's inoperative. If it were working correctly both wheels would spin after the one off the ground spun a few times to heat the clutch packs and the vehicle would then fly off the jack and through the garage wall. Nothing beats a locker off road. The combination you describe is the ultimate with the locker in the front end, assuming you've got the wip out to buy it. 3 days to go!:thumbsup:
 
calamari said:
What would happen if one tire was off the ground (almost the same scenario as one tire in mud). I don't care how much torque you apply, only one tire will spin.

If that is what your Eaton is doing then you're right, it's inoperative. If it were working correctly both wheels would spin after the one off the ground spun a few times to heat the clutch packs and the vehicle would then fly off the jack and through the garage wall. Nothing beats a locker off road. The combination you describe is the ultimate with the locker in the front end, assuming you've got the wip out to buy it. 3 days to go!:thumbsup:
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For off-road mainly vehicle 4X4 you want to have a locker in the rear and limited slip in the front. most four-by if you lift one side of the truck off the ground, you would get the up side turning and the down side sitting. I still like my old 205 transfer cases over the new ones , and locking hubs you have to get out and lock. But in this day and age mileage is king. So company's work that end, but that doesn't help us who go off-road on a regular basis.
 
QH, I just had a thought, have you checked your rear end oil? A lot of people don't put in the right oil and it makes the pack slip. just a thought but it happens....
 
Unless you have limited slip somewhere in the system, 4wd is actually 2wd, one in front , one in back, Better than 2wd without limited slip, but still not as good as all wheel drive. Of course, even with all wheel drive, one wheel still has to be touching the ground and not slipping. Unless you are into off road driving, 2wd with limited slip should get you where you want to be. If the roads are so bad you need 4wd, you should be at home in a recliner drinking something hot and adult. I've driven my 2wd for 15 years, been stuck twice. Both times, a little sand did the job. Sand is cheap.
 
some good points DougB, That's why if you want to go "off-road" and not a slimey gutter truck like we have here in Low Cal. You want to have a locker in the rear and limited slip in the front( poor Mileage ) is not go to drive to and fro from work, unless your a Ranger). I have spent the last thirty years chasing 4X4s. 6X6s. and 10X10s. all over So Cal and Catalina Island, in mud, dirt, sand, rock and a lake, mth. top rescue of a broke down vehicles you name it. I have even had "Black Blackhawk" land and tell us to stay back from a repeater on a peak. (Homeland Sec.)
 
I have plowed snow in NE.MN for almost 30 years on state hwys. Its amazing how far a 4/4 can go into the ditch when overdriving conditions. dose not help stop at all. I also own a 4/4.
 
If you don't need something with a bed, then get one of the subaru model. They don't get stuck and have a ton of ground clearance.
 
Tell You what, If Your going into rough country a two wheel drive is of NO value. No matter what the rear end. Chained up You have a chance (with low range). Neither is a vehicle without 4 WD Low range.
I love the back/rough country, get out there where the SUV's and most others can't go.
Trust Me:)he Missouri Breaks Country and North Central Montana badlands. YOU DON"Y wanna go in there dry weather even:eek: Without a dependable 4WD and Low range. :cheers:

Best of luck.

How Y'all handle the city streets, I have NO idea?
 
We had a Toyota Tacoma PreRunner (2WD) It looked good, but ... :laugh: It would spin out on a spot of frozen spit. Too much power and too little weight in the back. Every winter I put in 4 - 70lb sand bags in the truck bed. We previously owned a Subaru 4WD wagon which could go through any snow that we were brave enough to drive through. With the Tacoma, I got stuck in the parking lot at work when there was ice and couldn't make it up the ~5% grade out to the street. Ugh. Anyhow, we have a Ford Explorer now, it is a really good vehicle for us, gets us to where we want to go, can handle all of the muddy roads and farm access roads that I drive on and does great in the snow. I will not go back to a non 4WD truck/SUV.
 
Tires make a big difference

I do have a 4wd but I believe that good tires make a big difference. I travel out to North Dakota Pheasant hunting each fall. As long as it doesn't rain or snow you can get anywhere with 2wd, but put a little moisture in the top layer of the soil and you just got some very greasy traveling ahead of you. Last year I put on a new set of Toyo Open Country's on my 3/4 ton dmax right before I went out. We had a couple inches of snow one night and it got sunny and melted the next day. The roads got very greasy. I was pulling my 8 hole dog trailer and I was going up hills in 2wd that others trucks were fighting to make up in 4wd. I for one believe tire quality make a huge impact.
 
4 wheel drive: you don't need it until you need it!:)

AM
 
Just because you can go doesn't mean you should. Those dirt/gumbo roads get torn up by driving on them when they are wet making a real negative impression on the locals who drive them all year. Driving on dry rutted roads is a constant reminder of out of state behavior. What's undriveable one day will often be dry enough the next or soon after. That country back there always has someplace to hunt where you don't have to tear up a road.
 
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