Farm Practices & Pheasants

moellermd said:
The only thing a unchopped field gives you is more residue. There is still the same amount of corn to eat. In fact I would argue that the chopped field does more good for pheasants because it does not trap snow. It acts more like a bean field and the snow blows off exposing the corn kernals. If you are concerned about a winter food source you should be begging farmers to bale stover.
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md, you're really smart and can certainly think outside the box, but sometimes I think your drinking that ethanol instead of hauling it to town.
 
oldandnew said:
Less field residue can also mean no cover in the feeding area at all. so birds are forced to expose themselves to predators while gleaning grain in the barren wasteland. Also closes the middle of large fields to birds because of the distance from any cover, no bird will risk it. How many birds you guys shoot out of the middle of soybean fields, or baled corn stover parcels, as apposed to milo stubble, or corn stubble? Yeah, that's what I thought.
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This is a it depends question. If it is mild and open like this winter so far it is better with the stalks standing. If we get buried by snow then the the less cover the more available the feed. I see birds feed in the winter on bean ground alot and there is no cover there. I don't hunt bean ground but it does feed pheasants.
 
haymaker said:
I see birds feed in the winter on bean ground alot and there is no cover there.
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Yep see birds feeding in bean fields all the time. Just like they feed in a field that has been ripped or disked. Oh wait maybe I should not have said that, now people will be upset that farmers do fall tillage.
 
Wirehairs said:
Each bale contains roughly $20 in nutrients for the ground, not to mention the organic matter you are losing. If you are baling up these stalks you should be replacing those nutrients with fertilizer. $20 a bale times 4 bales = $80 an acre x 80 acres = $6400 If you are really including your loss of nutrients in to your profit equation you must be selling your bales for more than anyone else I know can. The is a faculty member from the University of Nebraska Extension service that says cornstalks should never be baled up unless you can get $100/ton for them. Just so you can use that money to buy your lost fertility back.
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I would like to see how they come up with $20 in nutirients, I would like to read his rational. Let me know if you know what extension publication that was in.

Iowa State University uses to 7 dollar figure for nutrients when calculating costs. In 2010 University of Nebraska used a $12 figure per ton. Which means about 6-7 dollars a bale. For us it is irrelavant because we haul it all back out with the manuare. Around here guys will pay you $15 to take your stalks, which covers your costs nicely.
 
moellermd said:
Yep see birds feeding in bean fields all the time. Just like they feed in a field that has been ripped or disked. Oh wait maybe I should not have said that, now people will be upset that farmers do fall tillage.
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Now we are to the issue of whether they feed there because of the "value" as you propose of the moonscape habitat, or it's really a fact that they feed there because there is no alternative! Just because they feed there and you see them, doesn't translate into a " best practices" where pheasant welfare is concerned. But it does make for a reassuring salve for the continued practice. By the way, when calculating cost of stover, don't forget the fuel cost, wear and tear on equipment, ( stalks do a number on round balers), how many passes over the field with 100hp or larger equipment,to cut, bale, feed, haul manure. Why not work smarter? a few rolls of electric fence, and graze the stalks, cows happy, pheasants happy, wind and water erosion limited, nutrients applied naturally back on the field, tremendous cash savings, and low input. I do realize there is a labor issue, especially if you cell graze, and complications of deep snow. But it can be done, we did it for years.
 
oldandnew said:
Why not work smarter? a few rolls of electric fence, and graze the stalks, cows happy, pheasants happy, wind and water erosion limited, nutrients applied naturally back on the field, tremendous cash savings, and low input. I do realize there is a labor issue, especially if you cell graze, and complications of deep snow. But it can be done, we did it for years.
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seems a lot agree with you here- drop off a stock tank and string wire-
pick up and move to a different field- some are even renting the field for the cattle-
 
oldandnew said:
Now we are to the issue of whether they feed there because of the "value" as you propose of the moonscape habitat, or it's really a fact that they feed there because there is no alternative! Just because they feed there and you see them, doesn't translate into a " best practices" where pheasant welfare is concerned. But it does make for a reassuring salve for the continued practice. By the way, when calculating cost of stover, don't forget the fuel cost, wear and tear on equipment, ( stalks do a number on round balers), how many passes over the field with 100hp or larger equipment,to cut, bale, feed, haul manure. Why not work smarter? a few rolls of electric fence, and graze the stalks, cows happy, pheasants happy, wind and water erosion limited, nutrients applied naturally back on the field, tremendous cash savings, and low input. I do realize there is a labor issue, especially if you cell graze, and complications of deep snow. But it can be done, we did it for years.
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In the spirit of the thread title-- I am interested in knowing the value of feeding cattle in wheat fallow/fall planting, corn stalks, etc. I have full time, good income and looking to invest back into the family farm. We currently rent out 300 acres (50/50 tillable vs pasture) and trying to understand what the risks vs rewards are.

Looking at 2,5 and 10 yr plan -- trying to understand what my beef herd would look like (# of) by those timelines and only be utilizing the farm capabilities (Ex-no plans to get to 100 head of the rest of the farm ground could not support it).

I know it's very broad question but I've been tinkering with asking here as I trust ALL inputs (conservative vs risky) and thought this was good timing.

Thanks-
 
southernblues said:
In the spirit of the thread title-- I am interested in knowing the value of feeding cattle in wheat fallow/fall planting, corn stalks, etc. I have full time, good income and looking to invest back into the family farm. We currently rent out 300 acres (50/50 tillable vs pasture) and trying to understand what the risks vs rewards are.

Looking at 2,5 and 10 yr plan -- trying to understand what my beef herd would look like (# of) by those timelines and only be utilizing the farm capabilities (Ex-no plans to get to 100 head of the rest of the farm ground could not support it).

I know it's very broad question but I've been tinkering with asking here as I trust ALL inputs (conservative vs risky) and thought this was good timing.

Thanks-
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Assuming that your talking about a cow/calf operation, the variables for any one operation are to difficult to calculate, without a lot more info. It's sure not a get rich proposition, but since your affiliated with the farming operation you already know that! Toget you started, you mentioned a smaller start, and keeping the animal unit load commensurate with the grounds carrying capacity, I would be conservative on estimates and I think your instincts are right on target. I do farm financing, and find that this approach is most sound. There are mineral and nutritional limitations in all winter grazed crops, high nitrogen can also be an issue in stalks, if it's been dry. I would direct you to the local county extension agent to get a baseline of what's average for the county. You might find a backgrounding operation with yearlings, might fit your situation better, or custom graze, on contract with a cattleman. Overall a good chance you can effectively utilize a resource not currently producing any income. Look forward to hearing how it works out.
 
Hard to convince me that bare ground farming practices are sustainable. The farm I had in Wi had been farmed using destructive practices for a long time. When I did fencing and was clearing a path, I found a three foot high rock fence completely covered with the nicest top soil you have ever seen. Only one way it got there. Wind/water erosion. I used it to build a half-acre of raised-bed gardens.
 
moellermd said:
I would like to see how they come up with $20 in nutirients, I would like to read his rational. Let me know if you know what extension publication that was in.

Iowa State University uses to 7 dollar figure for nutrients when calculating costs. In 2010 University of Nebraska used a $12 figure per ton. Which means about 6-7 dollars a bale. For us it is irrelavant because we haul it all back out with the manuare. Around here guys will pay you $15 to take your stalks, which covers your costs nicely.
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I believe his name is Paul Jassa. He was at a conference in S.F. this past week. He is UNL's no-till specialist and is based out of Lincoln.
 
oldandnew said:
Now we are to the issue of whether they feed there because of the "value" as you propose of the moonscape habitat, or it's really a fact that they feed there because there is no alternative! Just because they feed there and you see them, doesn't translate into a " best practices" where pheasant welfare is concerned. But it does make for a reassuring salve for the continued practice. By the way, when calculating cost of stover, don't forget the fuel cost, wear and tear on equipment, ( stalks do a number on round balers), how many passes over the field with 100hp or larger equipment,to cut, bale, feed, haul manure. Why not work smarter? a few rolls of electric fence, and graze the stalks, cows happy, pheasants happy, wind and water erosion limited, nutrients applied naturally back on the field, tremendous cash savings, and low input. I do realize there is a labor issue, especially if you cell graze, and complications of deep snow. But it can be done, we did it for years.
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I do not like bare ground. I prefer not to till unless to correct a specific problem and much prefer to graze cornstalks. If you can turn residue into plant food at little expense and feed your cattle it is a win, win, win. I have a neighbor that likes to get the residue out of the way so I go rake and bail his and bring it home to feed here. I would rather graze it but no fence or water. Having said all that fields that have the snow blow off rather than held by crop residue can be an important part of keeping pheasants fed. It is part of my plan for this winters pheasant survival.
 
Shadow said:
seems a lot agree with you here- drop off a stock tank and string wire-
pick up and move to a different field- some are even renting the field for the cattle-
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Not possible with fat cattle or dairy. We feed them a TMR, totally mixed rations. Additionally the majority of time the stover is removed for bedding not feed. Also most times during the winter are fields would be covered with 6in to a foot plus of snow. Stalks burried under snow are of no use.

I think your comment and O&N, however well intentioned, help show how conflict/missunderestand is created between landowners and sportsman. People see a farming pratice that looks unfriendly to wildlife and do not fully understand why the pratice is being done and instantly have a negative feeling towards the farmer for doing that pratice. Weather it is chopping corn stocks, removing fences, ect. Farmers do those things for an economical reason most of the time not just because they are bored and want to waste fuel.
 
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Wirehairs said:
I believe his name is Paul Jassa. He was at a conference in S.F. this past week. He is UNL's no-till specialist and is based out of Lincoln.
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Thanks, found several articles he wrote on the issue. Some good stuff. The articles I read by him had the value of fertilizer placed a $14 a ton, that would be reall close to $7 a bale. From the looks of his caluculations he is placing the cost of machinery at quite a bit higher rate than Iowa State or South Dakota State does, but good stuff to consider.

Even if you accept the $100 a ton figure it is still a better bet than straw which is going at hay auctions around here for $120 a ton. If I do not bed with stalks I have to bed with straw.
 
Hay is going for $200.00 a ton and goes up from there where I live.
 
That's horse hay. A lot of grass in it.There's some alfalfa and timothy in it. Alfalfa starts at $300.00 a ton. If you go by the 50 lb. bale it starts at $5.50 a bale and goes up to $8.00 a bale.
 
moellermd said:
Not possible with fat cattle or dairy. We feed them a TMR, totally mixed rations. Additionally the majority of time the stover is removed for bedding not feed. Also most times during the winter are fields would be covered with 6in to a foot plus of snow. Stalks burried under snow are of no use.

I think your comment and O&N, however well intentioned, help show how conflict/missunderestand is created between landowners and sportsman. People see a farming pratice that looks unfriendly to wildlife and do not fully understand why the pratice is being done and instantly have a negative feeling towards the farmer for doing that pratice. Weather it is chopping corn stocks, removing fences, ect. Farmers do those things for an economical reason most of the time not just because they are bored and want to waste fuel.
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Didn't realize you were fattening cattle, not much alternative to chopping. I had a chance to use a hesston 60 stacker one time, most fun I ever had in agriculture! I don't think anyone makes them now, it's a shame,for the operator using their own alfalfa, stalks, it was the cats meow. In your latitude the rain traditionally isn't the factor it is here. As an aside you never mentioned that you were feeding pheasants at the lot! Why hunt anywhere else, grow some grassy cover near the hedgerow windbreak, pick off the loafer pheasants that are eating with the cattle, after they drift back to cover. As suggested earlier by MM, it's the best pheasant survival habitat available, glad your doing your part.
 
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