My GSP has some issues....

B

brandonwaddle

New member
Hello, i have a year old male GSP "ACE" no papers, rescue dog.
Im having a few issues,
1: My dog does not recover live birds. if its still alive after the woooooooowwwww....flush...BANG! He just stands on the bird and waits for me to grab it. If its dead he will have it in my hand with no hesitation.
2: My dog gets CRAZY excited when we are hunting, I like him to hunt close to me. He likes to follow his nose till he is 100-200 yards out which is ok because he will stay on point for hours if I let him, but not ideal for late season "spooked" birds. He does not obey voice commands, or pay any mind to his e-collar when he is on a scent.
3: Last but not least, my dog is great on birds but points field mice:confused: and I cant shake him of it!
Any help, tips, ideas, or information would be great:)

Here is the trouble maker!
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At a year old he is still pretty young, the mouse thing he will grow out of.

Working with him on the Check Cord, you will have more control. He should know a command on the CC before you use the ecollar. (the ecollar is similar to a very long CC)

When he is on the CC you can show him what is expected, and have enough control to make it happen.

He is young still, take your time, be fair with him.

But when you give a command, he has to know what it means. They need some repetitions in different places to really learn it. But once they know the command, and you give the command, you need to see that the command is complied with.

There is a book call " Training with Mo" that is very good at showing you have to progress through training.
 
I agree with SN. He is young and should grow out of the mice thing around 3. The more birds he gets on the more he will learn what he is really after. He might have gotten spurred when he was with the other owner and is just playing it safe on the live birds. The more birds he gets to retrieve the better and should eventually start bringing back live birds. Get some pigeons and work with him on the live retrieve to build his confidence.
 
If you say he will hold his point for days if you let him why not let him range? I can understand your reasoning somewhat about the late season birds but you have to trust the dog. I think you will find it just as successful if you let him run his range and hold his birds with minimal noise from you. The birds know you and him are there long before you know where they are. In some instances it is beneficial to have him close depending on the cover but again I would let the dog dictate this. I would not worry about the mice either that will come to pass. The retrieving and command issues you are having are both lack of repetition. You have let him be a pup and now its time to put the "controls" into him and show him what it is you want and that you won't except anything less. When you give a command you have to see it through that way the dog not only knows what you mean but is also respecting you. Hunting is a partnership by both man and beast so you have to not only expect him to do his job but you also have to do yours and that often times spending quite a lot of time in the yard working on commands. You want to win in the field as a team and the only way to do that is set you both up for success. Let us know what comes of the issues and how you fixed them.
 
I was frustrated watching my britts flush birds way out of range. One easy thing to do to keep my dogs close was to let them sleep next to me the night before. I sleep on the couch so I can touch the dogs.
 
I'm not a trainer but I have had good luck with my dogs' performances.

1. If there's no flush off a point (mouse point) I would simply resume walking without saying anything or doing anything to your dog other than a straight arm signal in the direction you want the dog to go.

2. I accidently made my dog scream once with the shock collar so something may be amiss with your collar. As the dog moves away, the signal to the collar gets weaker so you have to turn up the juice. If your collar does not have juice adjustment, that may be a problem. Also, If you have not worked the dog with a check lead, I would start now. Get a spike collar to attach to the check lead and work first on "whoa" and/or collar vibrate for whoa. If you take the dog for leash walks, work on whoa on every walk until he has it. The check lead is excellent for teaching hand signals - left, right, and come - by turning the dog with the lead and walking in the direction you want with your arm extended in that direction. I use staight up arm for "come." I usually don't want the dog to actually come all the way in, just move toward me, followed by a directional signal. This would be a useful hand signal for your far ranging dog.

3. Keep communications to the dog while afield to a minimum - essentially one word commands except when the dog retrieves when you want to reward him with some petting, perhaps a small treat, and a "good dog" or two.

4. On birds still alive, try putting the bird in the dog's mouth, provided of course that the bird is not capable of spurring. If he takes it in his mouth, immediately turn away and command him to come and just walk a bit with the dog holding the bird in his mouth following you. Then stop, turn, and order him to "drop" to your hand and reward him if he does.

You have a good, energetic, true hunter. Just fine tune him now.
 
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BritChaser said:
I'm not a trainer but I have had good luck with my dogs performances.

2. I accidently made my dog scream once with the shock collar so something may be amiss with your collar. As the dog moves away, the signal to the collar gets weaker so you have to turn up the juice. If your collar does not have juice adjustment, that may be a problem. Also, If you have not worked the dog with a check lead, I would start now. Get a spike collar to attach to the check lead and work first on "whoa" and/or collar vibrate for whoa. If you take the dog for leash walks, work on whoa on every walk until he has it. The check lead is excellent for teaching hand signals - left, right, and come - by turning the dog with the lead and walking in the direction you want with your arm extended in that direction. I use staight up arm for "come." I usually don't want the dog to actually come all the way in, just move toward me, followed by a directional signal. This would be a useful hand signal for your far ranging dog.
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Just an FYI that's not how an E collar works. The range will only have an affect on if the collar works not the strength of stimulation.
 
Crossing can you elaborate so nobody misinterprets this line.
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When dogs sleep, they will be touching each other most of the time. A chin on a back, legs intertwined, etc

When I roll over, I'll stroke a back.
 
Mice and sparrows will pass. If the dog is that strong a pointer, I would not force the issue. Dogs learn the game, object is to get a bird, if he is to far out for you to get a shoot, with experience, he will adjust his range. Some of it may be the hazzards of hunting with a pointing dog, I sure like an "out on a limb" find, might be a bird that would have escaped detection with a hemmed in, close working dog. If you think about how many bird contacts you get now, then determine how many were scrounged up by a determined far ranging dog, you might see it a little differently! As far as retrieving, softer dogs need more experience, sometimes a dog gets spurred by pheasant, makes them cautious then on. Throw live trussed up birds to him, and reel back on a check cord, praise up. Other possibility is work with a super retriever, watch and learn, if they hunt together, when the retriever pulls that bird out from under your dogs paws, he'll see the light! P.S. I sleep with my dogs too! But bulky lab takes up to much room.
 
david0311 said:
X-2 :cheers:
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What about the following. Just curious because the strength of stimulation of the ecollar I use does seem to diminish as the distance between the transmitter in my hand and the dog.

"In free space, all electromagnetic waves (radio, light, X-rays, etc.) obey the inverse-square law which states that the power density of an electromagnetic wave is proportional to the inverse of the square of the distance from a point source[5] or:

Doubling the distance from a transmitter means that the power density of the radiated wave at that new location is reduced to one-quarter of its previous value.

The power density per surface unit is proportional to the product of the electric and magnetic field strengths. Thus, doubling the propagation path distance from the transmitter reduces each of their received field strengths over a free-space path by one-half."

From "Radio Propagation," Wikipedia.
 
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BritChaser said:
What about the following. Just curious because the strength of stimulation of the ecollar I use does seem to diminish as the distance between the transmitter I am using and the dog.

"In free space, all electromagnetic waves (radio, light, X-rays, etc.) obey the inverse-square law which states that the power density of an electromagnetic wave is proportional to the inverse of the square of the distance from a point source[5] or:

Doubling the distance from a transmitter means that the power density of the radiated wave at that new location is reduced to one-quarter of its previous value.

The power density per surface unit is proportional to the product of the electric and magnetic field strengths. Thus, doubling the propagation path distance from the transmitter reduces each of their received field strengths over a free-space path by one-half."

From "Radio Propagation," Wikipedia.
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BC I don't know about all of that:D. but it is inconsistent at longer ranges so your natural inclination would be to bump up the volume. Its coincedense that some of the transmitter is getting through... and any dog will respond quicker to higher stimulation.
 
BrownDogsCan2 said:
BC I don't know about all of that:D. but it is inconsistent at longer ranges so your natural inclination would be to bump up the volume. Its coincedense that some of the transmitter is getting through... and any dog will respond quicker to higher stimulation.
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I don't know about it either. Just wonderin'. :eek:
 
david0311

BritChaser said:
What about the following. Just curious because the strength of stimulation of the ecollar I use does seem to diminish as the distance between the transmitter in my hand and the dog.

"In free space, all electromagnetic waves (radio, light, X-rays, etc.) obey the inverse-square law which states that the power density of an electromagnetic wave is proportional to the inverse of the square of the distance from a point source[5] or:

Doubling the distance from a transmitter means that the power density of the radiated wave at that new location is reduced to one-quarter of its previous value.

The power density per surface unit is proportional to the product of the electric and magnetic field strengths. Thus, doubling the propagation path distance from the transmitter reduces each of their received field strengths over a free-space path by one-half."

From "Radio Propagation," Wikipedia.
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HUH????:eek::eek:

Is that the same principle as:

The angle of your dangle is in verse ly--propotional to the mass of her--oh never mind :rolleyes:

Seriously--or somewhat so--as long as the transmitter can trip the receiver the (collar) which at that point becomes the transmitter (to the dog) that distance does not change--so the intensity should not --I think--:rolleyes:

Easy test to gain empirical knowledge--

1-put on collar
2-give transmitter to ass't (believe most of our wives would like this job)
3-go out fifty yards
4-have ass't (wife) hit button
5-10 do same every fifty yards out to max range
11-evaluate your response --try not to be distracted by ass't--wife's laughter
12-get back to us with results when recovered;):cheers:
 
Distance dosent have anything to do with the strength of the stimulation. What you quoted has to do with why there is a limit on the distance your transmitter will work. If you wanted your transmitter to work at a longer distance you would have to have more power i.e. bigger battery. As far as the strength of the stimulation when you hit the button it should be the same no mater where the dog is located wether that is 10 yrds or 200 yrds. Should get the same result. Just my .02.
 
david0311 said:
Easy test to gain empirical knowledge--

1-put on collar
2-give transmitter to ass't (believe most of our wives would like this job)
3-go out fifty yards
4-have ass't (wife) hit button
5-10 do same every fifty yards out to max range
11-evaluate your response --try not to be distracted by ass't--wife's laughter
12-get back to us with results when recovered;):cheers:
Click to expand...

Get back to us after you run this experiment a coupla times. :p
 
BritChaser said:
What about the following. Just curious because the strength of stimulation of the ecollar I use does seem to diminish as the distance between the transmitter in my hand and the dog.

"In free space, all electromagnetic waves (radio, light, X-rays, etc.) obey the inverse-square law which states that the power density of an electromagnetic wave is proportional to the inverse of the square of the distance from a point source[5] or:

Doubling the distance from a transmitter means that the power density of the radiated wave at that new location is reduced to one-quarter of its previous value.

The power density per surface unit is proportional to the product of the electric and magnetic field strengths. Thus, doubling the propagation path distance from the transmitter reduces each of their received field strengths over a free-space path by one-half."

From "Radio Propagation," Wikipedia.
Click to expand...

The stimulation "power" comes from the receiver on the collar belt. It knows what level of stimulation based on the setting being sent to it. It gets the signal or it doesn't. A diminished signal won't lower the stimulation it will just be hit or miss if it's applying the level selected.
 
Thanks for the info guys! Ill try using a check cord more. As far as sleeping with my dog....not going to happen. I'm not sure if all dogs are like this, but if my dog spends the night in my bed he gets this "i own the house" mentality. Also my sport dog collar with a half mile range zaps just as stout within its range (I tested it). I might also add when behind a thick of trees or over hills its somewhat pointless, living in Montana its good to know.
 
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