I got a call from a gentleman yesterday about hunting opening weekend. It seems the place that they have been hunting for many years has decided to quit. I told him that I was booked but I could talk to a few guys and could possibly put something together but to hunt the opener would cost significant money and I gave him a ball park price just for hunting as they have resevations at a hotel. He politely told me that would be too much. So I am guessing that where they have hunted for many years is not interested at whatever price they are comfortable paying. So a pay hunt place is now a ditch to ditch farm. I understand that completely but I also see the other side. I guess it is good old fashioned capitalism and supply and demand.
Pay to play!
- Thread starter UGUIDE
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small munsterlander owner
Banned
carptom1 we are from 2 different hunting backgrounds i think my dad 62 & hunted all his life mostly here in MN till i came along & we never & i mean never had to pay or imagined paying to hunt here in MN for any species of game i think my dad said he payed 50$ 1 time in the 70s for a 2 day goose hunt out in the LQP geese were rare back then & they were done pheasant hunting already...
but you grew up PAYING TO PLAY i have not ever had to ever here in MN just so much public lands to enjoy... so to see what guides get for a SD PAY TO PLAY pheasant hunt or a FL osceola turkey hunt is just crazy to me...
many guys in states wear there is no wild pheasants think nothing of paying the fees asked same goes for southern quail hunts ETC...
frangler may have hit the nail on the head the main reason most people stop hunting altogether is lack of quality land to hunt... there will always be PAY TO PLAY but quality hunting on public lands is becoming more & more scarce as more guys are having to choose PAY TO PLAY quality hunt or PUBLIC LANDs with tons of other hunters & hope for the best???
hunting in england was always for the elite because they owned the land wear the game was & there was no public lands for the average guy to hunt LOL those with more $$$ got to hunt on the lands same type thing as now but at least we have public lands to wonder around on in most states anyway
but you grew up PAYING TO PLAY i have not ever had to ever here in MN just so much public lands to enjoy... so to see what guides get for a SD PAY TO PLAY pheasant hunt or a FL osceola turkey hunt is just crazy to me...
many guys in states wear there is no wild pheasants think nothing of paying the fees asked same goes for southern quail hunts ETC...
frangler may have hit the nail on the head the main reason most people stop hunting altogether is lack of quality land to hunt... there will always be PAY TO PLAY but quality hunting on public lands is becoming more & more scarce as more guys are having to choose PAY TO PLAY quality hunt or PUBLIC LANDs with tons of other hunters & hope for the best???
hunting in england was always for the elite because they owned the land wear the game was & there was no public lands for the average guy to hunt LOL those with more $$$ got to hunt on the lands same type thing as now but at least we have public lands to wonder around on in most states anyway
small munsterlander owner
Banned
im sure wear they were hunting tried to up the prices on all the returning hunting partys & nobody re booked for this season so they let the plow settle things a haymaker??? there is 1 more group either not going to SD or hammering the public lands nearby due to habitat loss...
That is right. Not there fault, I guess the guy did not tell them he was quitting so now there caught, which is why I tried to help them but if you are looking for a place to hunt on opening weekend on the the 4th of Sept. you better plan to spend some money. With a decreasing supply I suspect that prices are going higher, but if enough people quit hunting because of price it might go the other way. Another point SMO if you go to a movie you pay, if you go golfing you pay, the same with bowling or many other things. Hunters that come pay the gas stations and cafes, sporting goods stores and buy licenses. They stop at the bars and leave cash there and nobody has a problem with that. It is acceptable to go to a preserve and pay to hunt there, but to pay for access to wild birds is quite offensive to some. I guess that is OK, but it seems a little hypocritical.
I would rather pay to hunt wild birds! I can't stand the game farm birds, they have a crop full of Purina game bird chow, and frankly not a game bird and stink. I can do better on the back forty. Hears a thought, do any of the no pay guys have any idea what it cost to have wild bird hunting? I have some wild quail, it takes about 20-40 acres to have a 12-15 birds, If you manage correctly, you would prune out a bout 4-5 birds. Nature will get the others, leaving 8 or so to go on with, and assure the survival. of course there are plowing, burning, planting, takes about 8 acres of weedy open pasture, to nest for a single pair of quail, a couple of brush thickets, here and there , some first succession sprouting greens to attracted bugs. Hard weather resistant food source, that is easy to get to in bad weather. Of course decent normal weather. So a hunter who shoots his limit, has "used" about 80@ for most normal quail range. So If you go every week, and you get your limit each day, you will blow through a lots of acreage, that means in these days, somebody spent a lot of time and cash, to provide. If you want your own, you would need about 800 acres to fuel your passion, and another 800@ to take care of your buddy! This is why we have no quail. You can not efficiently produce quail, if efficiently is your goal, so it's a cash loss.... period. Now what do you pay to hunt? Might be a bargain. If you have friends who invite gratis, be sure they don't get a cold and die!
I think the the logic for those who have to travel far to hunt SD, is if they are going to have to spend 200 a day to kill 3 birds (not including gas, food and lodging), economically speaking, would it not make more sense to stay home and shoot 8-10 birds on a preserve?....I think for many the answer is obvious....the economics for farmers applies to hunters as well...it's all about getting the best bang for the buck....
My guess is groups like ours will change and adapt. Our group is now going to Michigan (upper Peninsula) for a Grouse and Woodcock trip instead of our SD trip. There is no "pay to play" in Michigan and thousands of free land to walk. We will also bring our bows for early am and late pm deer sits. Again, no pay to play.
We will also schedule a number of local preserve hunts just to get our pheasant fix during the year. SD lost 7 NR hunters for this year and in my opinion for ever unless the birds come back and the price of pay to play levels off or lowers which won't happen.
I can only speak for our group but I will be interested to see if other groups that come from far far away like us stop coming to SD as well.
We will also schedule a number of local preserve hunts just to get our pheasant fix during the year. SD lost 7 NR hunters for this year and in my opinion for ever unless the birds come back and the price of pay to play levels off or lowers which won't happen.
I can only speak for our group but I will be interested to see if other groups that come from far far away like us stop coming to SD as well.
this is exactly what I was referring to, shrinking habitat, public lands, much lower bird numbers....hate to see it happen, but the real losers are the motels and business owners in SD....the days when CRP worked for the landowners and coincidentally for the hunters is over....
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reddog
Well-known member
If the farm economy continues to be strong, I look for the trend to swing away from Pay to Play places and move towards strictly ag based income.. How much simpler would that be?
I think there are two issues at stake here with the Pay To Play. First is the traditional group of -20 guys getting together and banging the crap out of everything on as much land as it takes to get their birds, or out of time.. The other area that I would consider is a trespass fee to hunt anywhere from 20-40-80 acres that had a chance of having some birds on it. That's how I started out in South Dakota. I wanted nothing to do with a group hunt. I just wanted to go walk a creek, or a water way that was too small to drop a group of guys out on.. Seeking out these types of hunt, took some time to put together, but when I explained to the landowner, I didn't want access to 320, or 480 acres, but just wanted to walk the pasture edges, or creek bottom that never got walked, that opened some doors for me.
Im not letting a poor report stop me.. Not at this stage of my life..
NOPLCLKNEB
Banned
Hopefully I won't cause a uproar on this thread.
At the good wild bird commercial pheasant pay to play places, you are paying the farmer to plant pheasant habitat, and farm for pheasants. To farm in this manner costs the farmer money, to pay for this cost he charges hunters a fee.
Its not a trespass fee, but a fee to pay for leaving in crops, not cutting and bailing grass. The fee hopefully covers his extra costs plus some profit. The other great part about all the pheasant cover that is maintained on a good pay to play outfit, is that later in the year all the bonus surrounding pheasants flock to the good cover and away from the for profit only farmers moonscape land.
I paid to hunt wild birds the past two years near Winner. The place I went to could not have done a better job of farming for pheasants. Excellent habitat left for the birds and the habitat is set up to hunt. Plus the guys running it are excellent guides also. It was a great time and I would do it again.......as long as I am going to get my bang for my buck.
Here is where so many people seem to disagree with me. I'm not going to pay $300 + per day to see twice as many birds as I would see in Nebraska. I get it that some of you have zero birds in your state and just want to see a wild pheasant. That is fine, and more power to you, its suppose to be a free country, and who am I to tell you what to do.
Here is what I think is going to happen this year and in the future IF corn and hay prices stay high:
The pay to play farms that focus on great habitat for the birds are always going to have birds. The first two or three weeks will be good, but they are not going to get the influx of the bonus farm for profit neighbor's birds that keep coming to their great habitat later in the season because......there aren't any birds anymore on the neighbors moonscape land.
In Nebraska where I live no one farms for pheasants. The farmers here farm every square inch of land they can. But there are a few places around my place that are not farmable. A nice wetland, and some old abandoned farm places. They have birds, but for 10 miles in each direction there is not 1 pheasant, because there is no cover, none.
This is what I see happening in South Dakota also. Yes there are always going to be birds, but with out the bonus neighbor birds coming in later in the season, its going to kill the wild commercial operations, other than the first couple weekends.
At the good wild bird commercial pheasant pay to play places, you are paying the farmer to plant pheasant habitat, and farm for pheasants. To farm in this manner costs the farmer money, to pay for this cost he charges hunters a fee.
Its not a trespass fee, but a fee to pay for leaving in crops, not cutting and bailing grass. The fee hopefully covers his extra costs plus some profit. The other great part about all the pheasant cover that is maintained on a good pay to play outfit, is that later in the year all the bonus surrounding pheasants flock to the good cover and away from the for profit only farmers moonscape land.
I paid to hunt wild birds the past two years near Winner. The place I went to could not have done a better job of farming for pheasants. Excellent habitat left for the birds and the habitat is set up to hunt. Plus the guys running it are excellent guides also. It was a great time and I would do it again.......as long as I am going to get my bang for my buck.
Here is where so many people seem to disagree with me. I'm not going to pay $300 + per day to see twice as many birds as I would see in Nebraska. I get it that some of you have zero birds in your state and just want to see a wild pheasant. That is fine, and more power to you, its suppose to be a free country, and who am I to tell you what to do.
Here is what I think is going to happen this year and in the future IF corn and hay prices stay high:
The pay to play farms that focus on great habitat for the birds are always going to have birds. The first two or three weeks will be good, but they are not going to get the influx of the bonus farm for profit neighbor's birds that keep coming to their great habitat later in the season because......there aren't any birds anymore on the neighbors moonscape land.
In Nebraska where I live no one farms for pheasants. The farmers here farm every square inch of land they can. But there are a few places around my place that are not farmable. A nice wetland, and some old abandoned farm places. They have birds, but for 10 miles in each direction there is not 1 pheasant, because there is no cover, none.
This is what I see happening in South Dakota also. Yes there are always going to be birds, but with out the bonus neighbor birds coming in later in the season, its going to kill the wild commercial operations, other than the first couple weekends.
carptom1
Well-known member
Man you sure didn't offend me. I have a couple contacts up there that are considerably less than that. One I had had for years on opening weekend. A couple of years ago I got bumped to third or fourth weekend for a large group. I know eventually the time will come that I will get priced out of this but you do what you can do. Like someone said, I won't lay on my deathbed saying I wish hadn't spent those few bucks to hunt. I have plenty of ground, family and otherwise, I can hunt in north central kansas that used to hold birds. I will go up a couple times and remember how it used to be. Heck one of our favorite parts of the whole trip to SD, is the drive up with the boys.
small munsterlander owner
Banned
its sad to say but if i see a hand full more groups of hunters saying they are canceling there SD hunt this year due to high $$$ & low bird numbers im am definitely heading to SD this season hope there is less guys pounding the public lands late season... think im up to 13-15 guys not heading to SD this season & counting...
on my death bed i will be talking about all the great hunts i was on not crying about not spending $$$ in SD like u guys say...
on my death bed i will be talking about all the great hunts i was on not crying about not spending $$$ in SD like u guys say...
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I am not going to argue anything that you said but we must remember that the weather plays a big part in all of this. Like Wirehairs pointed out we are coming off a drought and a long winter and some heavy rains in the middle of May. Last year with short cover and mild weather November was tough hunting. Then we got some snow and it was better. When we had the Wounded Warrior Hunt it was perfect and we had a great hunt. Sometimes I think I know what I am doing here and then I have to remind myself that these are not pen raised birds these are God raised birds and all I can do is provide habitat and enjoy whatever comes of it.
NOPLCLKNEB
Banned
Gettin Birdy
Member
We travel from TX, FL, OH, IN and LA to hunt SD. We are there to shoot wild birds together and no doubt we spend some money, but it is our vacation and what we love to do, the price is important but not king. Canned birds are no match for the dog or shooter so not even a comparison to hunting wild birds. I am not knocking canned hunts as sometimes that is the only option. Compare the price for SD to a Disney, mountain, ski, beach, vacation and SD is worth every penny!:cheers: