you always hear to not start pups in pheasants

richudak said:
letting pups run on wild birds is a great way to start a pup.This does not include shooting or retrieving.Serious training can start whne a pup gets a year or so of age.The pup will develope a desire to hunt if he sees a lot of birds and if your in good pheasant country you have the best of both worlds
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really- each pup was hunting pheasants with their dad- picture- pup is 5 months- she grabbed the one she pointed

strange- all this getting spurred and ripping the face- I've yet to have one of mine scratched- but then again- mine don't seem to grab roosters by the breast- for those that think a dog isn't smart- you go ahead and grab a very alive rooster by the breast

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just my pets- entertainment- enjoy them- didn't figure 12 would produce so many eggs- didn't know all the eggs would hatch- didn't know all the hatchlings would live thru the winter - now I'm right at what do I do- build a bigger containment

you're going to chuckle- folks wanted me to let some loose, some wanted to buy a few- wife's words "so they can shoot them, do they know they are tame, isn't right" hum-
 
Maybe you’re misinterpreting the advice not to start a pup on pheasants. If pheasants are your primary species, then I think it makes complete sense to start a pup right out of the gate on wild pheasants. I would do the same.

However, if your primary species is ruffed grouse (as mine is), then yes, I would agree with the conventional wisdom that a pup should not be started on pheasants. I have a ten month old EP that I will not expose to pheasants until he is excelling on grouse. Probably year three. Fortunately, I have a shorthair that is in his third year now and has developed into a really nice grouse dog and is a becoming a very reasonable pheasant dog.

Most important to me is to have a really good grouse dog. I’m of the belief that a really good grouse dog can become a serviceable pheasant dog. I believe it to be much less common for a really good pheasant dog to be a serviceable grouse dog. And if they’re started on pheasants, it takes them longer to learn how to handle grouse. The two birds are just so different. It takes a special dog and a lot of contacts for a dog to be really good at both.

And I am specifically referring to ruffed grouse/pheasants. I have not seen this with sharptails/pheasants. Most dogs seem to be able to handle sharpies and pheasants at relatively the same time. YMMV.
 
I agree with GSP's post above. There is nothing wrong with starting a pup on wild pheasants. Get them on wild birds and if they're timid, find a different dog. Granted, starting a pup on a wild bird at say, 3 months might not be the wisest choice, but anything after 5 should be fine. I'm a proponent of getting them on as much bird contact, as often as possible, as soon as possible. They need to learn to hunt.
 
GSP said:
Maybe you’re misinterpreting the advice not to start a pup on pheasants. If pheasants are your primary species, then I think it makes complete sense to start a pup right out of the gate on wild pheasants. I would do the same.

However, if your primary species is ruffed grouse (as mine is), then yes, I would agree with the conventional wisdom that a pup should not be started on pheasants. I have a ten month old EP that I will not expose to pheasants until he is excelling on grouse. Probably year three. Fortunately, I have a shorthair that is in his third year now and has developed into a really nice grouse dog and is a becoming a very reasonable pheasant dog.

Most important to me is to have a really good grouse dog. I’m of the belief that a really good grouse dog can become a serviceable pheasant dog. I believe it to be much less common for a really good pheasant dog to be a serviceable grouse dog. And if they’re started on pheasants, it takes them longer to learn how to handle grouse. The two birds are just so different. It takes a special dog and a lot of contacts for a dog to be really good at both.

And I am specifically referring to ruffed grouse/pheasants. I have not seen this with sharptails/pheasants. Most dogs seem to be able to handle sharpies and pheasants at relatively the same time. YMMV.
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well said- I'm in pheasant contry- they were walking in the yard- seemed not a bad idea to let the youngsters see what the game was all about- as long as their dad was with them:D

ruffed grouse- as in North Minnesota- I can honestly tell you my Britt's really struggled- course that was 8 years ago- but I have to agree- I don't think my Britt's, who can handle pheasants- would be much good on ruffed grouse untill they met that crafty bird and played the game a day or two-
 
Training needs to be as controlled of a situiation as possible. Wild birds are just that wild. Plus you can't shoot them all year long. Pigeons are cheap durable and easy to care for. Build drive, work on steadying, retreving etc. with good old pigeons. Throw some semi frozen ducks and a few pheasants to give them some experiance. Bring a buddy to the game farm that can shoot easy predictable birds for you while you handle the dog. A well bred dog will develop plenty of drive with pigeons....pup won't give a darn if it is a chucker, hun or pheasant. Plus a pup that is acclimated to gunfire may still be a bit unnerved the first time a big hunting group lets a barrage goes off over his head. Puppys are a long term investment don't rush them into the field.
 
Shadow said:
ruffed grouse- as in North Minnesota- I can honestly tell you my Britt's really struggled- course that was 8 years ago- but I have to agree- I don't think my Britt's, who can handle pheasants- would be much good on ruffed grouse untill they met that crafty bird and played the game a day or two-
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I'd be surprised if they could make the transition in a day or two. I had a shorthair that I started on pheasants and never saw a grouse until he was two. He was a respectable pheasant dog, not great by any stretch, but he was showing promise. I took him to the grouse woods and it was a disaster. He pointed one grouse that year and it wasn't until damn near the end of Dec. What's worse is that he completely lost his pheasant game too. Most pheasants simply walked away from him. The following year he ended up putting it together and is respectable on both birds, but I wouldn't call him a great grouse dog or a great pheasant dog.
 
Gatzby said:
Training needs to be as controlled of a situiation as possible. Wild birds are just that wild. Plus you can't shoot them all year long. Pigeons are cheap durable and easy to care for. Build drive, work on steadying, retreving etc. with good old pigeons. Throw some semi frozen ducks and a few pheasants to give them some experiance. Bring a buddy to the game farm that can shoot easy predictable birds for you while you handle the dog. A well bred dog will develop plenty of drive with pigeons....pup won't give a darn if it is a chucker, hun or pheasant. Plus a pup that is acclimated to gunfire may still be a bit unnerved the first time a big hunting group lets a barrage goes off over his head. Puppys are a long term investment don't rush them into the field.
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I'd agree with that for the most part. Pigeons are great for teaching and reinforcing manners. I use them extensively.

But I disagree about training on wild birds. Training on wild birds is indespensible. You don't have to shoot them to train on them. Once a dog knows his manners, he needs as many wild bird contacts as he can get. It's the only way he's going to know just how much pressure a grouse can take or that coveted skill of circling a running rooster.

I will NEVER take one of my dogs to a game farm. No good can come of it.
 
I see how a bad experience could ruin a young dog or cause some other problem like a hard mouth. It could even brake a softer dog and make them blink birds, then all of your training was for nothing.

Would you send a green retriever who has never had a real world retrieve after a wing tipped honker for his first retrieve? That could turn out bad also right?

I'm glad our quail season starts a month before pheasant season, it gives the pup time to build up confidence in the field before chasing roosters. It's always funny to watch a pup who has only retrieved quail figure out how to get a hold of a rooster.:thumbsup:
 
GSP said:
I will NEVER take one of my dogs to a game farm. No good can come of it.
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So building a pups confidence is no good huh? Is it lonely up there on that pedestal?
 
Ok, but for the guy who doesn't have the time or space to keep birds the preserve works just fine and most preserves will accomidate training.
 
not one pup have I started on tame birds, nor preserve birds- always been get them into wild birds- last 30 years it's been a youngster with an adult-

but unlike most- I don't train-

I want mine in the birds we are going to be hunting as soon as they are old enough to know what a nose is to be used for

never have had a desire to put them on birds we aren't going to be hunting-
I've seen enough dicky bird pointers

I've been grouse hunting up north just south of Bemidji- that's where I grew up- I've put my EP, ES, and a few Britt's down for some heavy hunting- if the drive wasn't so darn far I'd go back and turn mine loose on the old stomping grounds- was 27 square miles of tax forefitted old logging land-
 
quail hound said:
Would you send a green retriever who has never had a real world retrieve after a wing tipped honker for his first retrieve? That could turn out bad also right?
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yeh- we grew up in North Minn- we expected our Golden Retrievers to retrieve what we shot- grouse, ducks, geese- we'd get them in a duck blind as soon as we could- my brothers Golden was 7 months when we dropped a Canadian Honker- we were surprised- the dog almost tore up the blind- but he swam thru the duck decoys and brought back that goose- by the wing- along with a couple decoys-:) but first real experience- yes- many dogs can do just fine the first experience- if the drive and desire is there- and nobody screwed it up by trying to polish the dog for showoff
 
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