When to send a dog away for training?

[goldenboy]

Question for today. I am probably going to keep one of the pups out of the next litter of mine. I typically send them out to a trainer for 2-3 months of training to be force broke, learn some hand casting, etc. The first dog I sent out to be trained was over a year old. She took the training well and to this day will not drop a bird ever. Her hand casting is still good, and her marking is phenomenal.
The next dog I had trained I sent out before she was a year old. She is force broke and will take whistle commands and casting. Problem is she didn't advance as far as the older dog. Sometime she drops a bird when multiple birds are down. She will get close to me, spit the bird at me and run to retrieve another. She sometimes disregards the cast and hunts where she believes the bird is.

So my question is at what age have you had the most success at sending a dog out for training? Do you think it is better to do much of the early work at home and then put them into a program after a year or so when they are out of some of the young dog antics? Or is it better to run them through a program early before bad habits take root? Anybody had more success with sending dogs out early or better waiting for 1 year to 18 months?

 

[Dakotazeb]

I think the dog takes the training better when they are a little older. I'd do it at 12-18 months rather than prior to them being a year old.

 

[ditchparrot19]

I'd send one as young as 7 or 8 months if I thought it was ready. It'd have to have its adult teeth in, know some basic obedience and have demonstrated the ability to take some training pressure without folding up its tent. If I could put check marks in all of those categories, I'd have no reason to wait.

Age is just a guideline in regard to preparedness for that; it's not the determining factor. Just like children, all puppies are different and learn at varying rates.

 

[bobman]

Depends on breed and what you want done I would wait until 1.5 to 2 years of age and a good season with lots of birds before I FF'ed one.

The first season is for the pup just to gain confidence and love birds after that they start to learn they have a job but I don't rush it

 

[Natty Bumpo]

IME I agree with George and Bob and pretty much for the reasons they gave.

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY.

NB

 

[FCSpringer]

I don't know a trainer that would tell you this with a flushing dog. We get them going asap, like 8 weeks. Start with getting come, sit kennel stay and retrieves down. As soon as that is done, then to the field they go. We want them to be shot over around 8-9 months. Steady about a year. Heck were running puppy stakes at 12-24 months LOL. Each dog will progress at it's own pace. But there is 0 reason to wait. Other then getting basic obedience done first, so your not paying for a bunch of time on that. Puppy class is also good for that. But that's just me and everyone I know. And flushers, no matter what breed, labs etc.

 

[FCSpringer]

And a note about birds. We never rush to live pheasants, always pigeons to build confidence. Often times you can ruin will and desire by getting them on pheasants too soon. Not to mention the flush and retrieve and delivery. Once they are acting like a big dog, then some hens are mixed in about a year old. My self, if it was me, 7-8 months for sure I would have them getting trained. And I would leave the dog till it is pretty solid and not rush the trainer. Often people put too much pressure on a trainer for instant gratification. I always laugh at the ones who advertise "we do this in a week, that in a few days, this by week 2, this by week 3. Bing bang bung done.. LOL. I would avoid that guy like the plague. A well rounded trainer with talent will tell you they all have their own pace, and you don't want to rush it. If your the guy whos dog will fly right through, great. But don't depend on it, let them do their job.:thumbsup:

 

[Gatzby]

And a note about birds. We never rush to live pheasants, always pigeons to build confidence. Often times you can ruin will and desire by getting them on pheasants too soon. Not to mention the flush and retrieve and delivery. Once they are acting like a big dog, then some hens are mixed in about a year old. My self, if it was me, 7-8 months for sure I would have them getting trained. And I would leave the dog till it is pretty solid and not rush the trainer. Often people put too much pressure on a trainer for instant gratification. I always laugh at the ones who advertise "we do this in a week, that in a few days, this by week 2, this by week 3. Bing bang bung done.. LOL. I would avoid that guy like the plague. A well rounded trainer with talent will tell you they all have their own pace, and you don't want to rush it. If your the guy whos dog will fly right through, great. But don't depend on it, let them do their job.:thumbsup:

NICE post!

I start obedience the very first time I pick up my pup (read Tom Dokkens pressure on, pressure off for puppies). Puppy's are sponges and can learn so much just through consistent reinforcement of good behaviors. I would introduce clipped wing pigeons and gunfire to pups as soon as possible say 12-16 weeks or so. As for FF, wait for adult teeth and solid enough obedience. Goldens mature pretty quick I don't see a need to wait much past 6-8 months. I find that Minnesota weather effects training timelines more than the dog. Water intro is a bitch right now, but pile work/handling drills are a blast as you can get lots of reps without overheating the dog.
Having said all that it really depends on each individule dog. Talk to your trainer and see what he thinks. I am guessing he will want him right away and if he feels pup isn't ready he will send him home for a while. Are you thinking of going to Jeff L in elk river?

 

[goldenboy]

NICE post!

I start obedience the very first time I pick up my pup (read Tom Dokkens pressure on, pressure off for puppies). Puppy's are sponges and can learn so much just through consistent reinforcement of good behaviors. I would introduce clipped wing pigeons and gunfire to pups as soon as possible say 12-16 weeks or so. As for FF, wait for adult teeth and solid enough obedience. Goldens mature pretty quick I don't see a need to wait much past 6-8 months. I find that Minnesota weather effects training timelines more than the dog. Water intro is a bitch right now, but pile work/handling drills are a blast as you can get lots of reps without overheating the dog.
Having said all that it really depends on each individule dog. Talk to your trainer and see what he thinks. I am guessing he will want him right away and if he feels pup isn't ready he will send him home for a while. Are you thinking of going to Jeff L in elk river?

Gatsby I have not sent a dog to Jeff. Do you know him? Would you recommend him? I believe he bought Elk River kennels from a guy I had train my first golden. I have been working with a guy who learned at Elk River Kennels and does a nice job. Springer, I put live pheasants in the pen with my pups at 6 weeks old. Now they are hens of course, but the ones with great drive will attack that hen and catch her. The more she runs the better! I just asked this question because I do a lot of the basic obedience early on. When I send them away they are ready for FF, long marks, etc. I have just never been patient enough to bring out the finer points of dog handling. For some reason the pro's have better success than I do.

 

[FCSpringer]

No offence GB, but I would stop doing the toss in the bird pen thing with the pups. Tossing clip pigeons to retrieve would get you further with much less chance of a blinking dog or a dog that won't pick up a bird from being clawed by a strong pheasant at an early age.

 

[goldenboy]

No offence GB, but I would stop doing the toss in the bird pen thing with the pups. Tossing clip pigeons to retrieve would get you further with much less chance of a blinking dog or a dog that won't pick up a bird from being clawed by a strong pheasant at an early age.

Springer, I don't put roosters in with them, only hens. I also will buy chuckars as well, but I want the bird to be able to run, that gives the flushers the chance to chase which is really good for the prey drive. I always start them with a few puppies in the pen against the bird. Then when they get confident I can set them loose in the pen alone with a bird. I have even left bird cages in the pen with the puppies and they end up finding their way into the cage because they have such a strong drive to catch that bird! I have been raising golden's for about 8 years now and have had great success with this method. But as you said I won't put a rooster in there with them with the chance of getting spurred.

 

[Gatzby]

Gatsby I have not sent a dog to Jeff. Do you know him? Would you recommend him? I believe he bought Elk River kennels from a guy I had train my first golden. I have been working with a guy who learned at Elk River Kennels and does a nice job. Springer, I put live pheasants in the pen with my pups at 6 weeks old. Now they are hens of course, but the ones with great drive will attack that hen and catch her. The more she runs the better! I just asked this question because I do a lot of the basic obedience early on. When I send them away they are ready for FF, long marks, etc. I have just never been patient enough to bring out the finer points of dog handling. For some reason the pro's have better success than I do.

I had a dog trained by the Al Freiberg to. I think he retired and moved to ND. Jeff Latour is a very nice guy who is really generous with his facility every tuesday night he lets amatures use his place and every other saturday he lets LLHRC have a training day. As i have never trained with him I am not comfortable endorsing him. I bet he does an awesome job, I just dont have first hand knowledge. I can ask around and get you a couple people who have had dogs trained there. Tim Springer has became mostly a field trial trainer and is kicking some ass. Check out TKO gundogs and boarding, he's in Hasty (Tim is the best trainer around) unfortunatly he is only taking on 6 or so dogs this year. Craig klien at Fischers is mostly a chessie guy but worth checking out

 

[goldenboy]

I had a dog trained by the Al Freiberg to. I think he retired and moved to ND. Jeff Latour is a very nice guy who is really generous with his facility every tuesday night he lets amatures use his place and every other saturday he lets LLHRC have a training day. As i have never trained with him I am not comfortable endorsing him. I bet he does an awesome job, I just dont have first hand knowledge. I can ask around and get you a couple people who have had dogs trained there. Tim Springer has became mostly a field trial trainer and is kicking some ass. Check out TKO gundogs and boarding, he's in Hasty (Tim is the best trainer around) unfortunatly he is only taking on 6 or so dogs this year. Craig klien at Fischers is mostly a chessie guy but worth checking out

Gatzby, I had Al Freiberg and Chris Wilson work on my first dog. Al retired and Chris trained my second dog but I sent her to him early and she is the one that I probably need to refresh a bit. Chris owns Granite Ledge Kennels in Milaca. I don't know Jeff but should go and spend some time over there with those guys some Tuesday evening. I have heard of Tim Springer and his name is thrown around a lot. I don't have the time or patience for the trial games but want a dog who can be handled in the field in real hunting situations.

 

[birdshooter]

Golden, really does depend on what you want done. If it's just a bird and gun intro, 6 months IMO is a nice age, but may depend on the individual. More detailed training after the dog has had a season under his belt, likely after he's at least 1.

FWIW