Whats wrong with our sport?

moellermd

moellermd

Super Moderator
Disclaimer.
This is in no way meant to be a put down against any of the hunting lodges/camps out there. They are just doing what the customer wants/demands. But here is the question.

Why is it that with any big game hunt people freely expect that they may not get there tag filled. Yet they will spend thousands of dollars anyway. Fishing guides take people out and the fish don't bite and that is life. A pheasant hunter shoots 2 birds in stead of his 3 a day limit and he is unhappy. Whats the deal?
 
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Moellermd, I know what you are talking about. I believe I hear it more for older people than younger. I think that part of it has to do with historic expectations. People believe that just because that is the way it was, that is the way it still should be all without taking anything in to consideration, such as climate change and landscape change. They are also more likely to hunt other animals from that area that are maybe more plentiful or easier to hunt. I know many people that hunt deer here because they are easier to come by than walking through a field to find a bird or two.
 
I have a great deal of enjoyment by just being in the field. If I see a pheasant, I am thrilled. If I bag a rooster, I have exceeded my highest expectations. If I bag a limit, I feel like the luckiest man on Earth.
 
its called hunting

i hear what your saying. i think some people just are not happy, unless they have something to whin about. or maybe they just forgot, its called hunting not shopping. to me its about the adventure, the sights, the dogs, the freinds you, share the hunt with, and alot more, the birds are just the cherry on top. i might be wrong just my op.:cool:
 
I have heard this argument before. The perception I get from most of the younger hunters is. They have spent X number of dollars for a license and feel they are entitled to a limit. I am like most of the above posts, I don't really care if I get a bird or not. I do believe Tony feels he has not done his job if I don't get one. So for his sake I hope he gets a point or 2. I get a shot or 2 in hopes he will go home feeling mission accomplished.................Bob
 
I think it is a feeling of entitlement. I paid x amount for this trip and I expect to fill my tag or bag. They are in it for the thrill of the kill and not for the experience. When I was 18-20 I was always disappointed when I did not get anything. Now I could care less. Just want to be there!!!!!!!!
 
BleuBijou said:
I think it is a feeling of entitlement. I paid x amount for this trip and I expect to fill my tag or bag. They are in it for the thrill of the kill and not for the experience. When I was 18-20 I was always disappointed when I did not get anything. Now I could care less. Just want to be there!!!!!!!!
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I agree. I once heard about the evolution of a sportsman and it talked about phases a hunter goes through in life with the last being just sitting there enjoying the sun go down on a nice autumn day. Some early ones were to "get shooting" and then on to "getting limits"...."trophies", etc. Everyone has egos and measures success in different ways.

Not sure if I posted this article I wrote on that very subject that each of our groups will get a copy of to help manage thier expectations.

Fair Chase Pheasant Hunting
Understanding the Risks and Variabilityâ??s of Wild Pheasant Hunting
 
Thats a great article Chris. I wish everyone would look at it that way. I would hate to see our sport turn from Pheasant Hunting to Pheasant Shooting. Unfortunately I think it already has for the majority.
 
I don't understand it I've been going to Iowa to Pheasant hunt for the last few years and only once have I ever killed my limit. The only reason I did it then was because 3 roosters flushed at once and 3 shots later I had my limit, it took about 1.6 seconds and I was estatic. But I am just as happy to kill 1 bird. The limit isn't the reason I hunt I just love being outdoors and watching the dogs work. Thats priceless! For to many people sucess is all about limiting out. How wrong is that?
 
It's way wrong. I understand what you are saying Bob. I, for one, prefer the outdoors and being able to do something out there and just enjoy it. That thrill for the kill line was about the truth of it. One thing that I'm not sure of, but I have discussed it in several of my classes is not only do mine and younger generations believe they have some sort of entitlement, but also the instant gratification we are used to getting. Don't wanna wait to watch a movie, download from netflix. Don't want to miss out on your limit, tough luck, you may or may not get it, that's part of why it is called hunting. I enjoy when the birds try to be smart by circling back around to the same spot and the dog takes us back there, and we're starting to distrust the dog until he goes on point and we kick up a rooster. I love it when the dog proves us wrong.
 
a men

i concure its not about the kill its about getting out in the field. limiting is a plus but not a goal. the older i get the more i understand this point. some of the best hunts ive been on have been one bird hunts. the dog or dogs worked hard for that one bird. i worked hard just to keep up with the dog/ dogs. i have hunted, in my life, areas that dont have great #,S of birds. might have to walk all day to get just one. they are some of my best hunts. lol dogs might not agree:D:D:cheers:
 
moellermd said:
Disclaimer.
This is in no way meant to be a put down against any of the hunting lodges/camps out there. They are just doing what the customer wants/demands. But here is the question.

Why is it that with any big game hunt people freely expect that they may not get there tag filled. Yet they will spend thousands of dollars anyway. Fishing guides take people out and the fish don't bite and that is life. A pheasant hunter shoots 2 birds in stead of his 3 a day limit and he is unhappy. Whats the deal?
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Can't say, because in my job big game hunters routinely complain if they aren't successful and the fishing guides I know talk about getting grief from clients when they have a poor day.

And assuming someone shoot reasonably well and has a passable dog, if you visit pay to play operations why isn't complaining about lack of opportunity OK--wild birds I get it, but one could make a point that many pay to play options aren't "normal" hunting and the proprietors get paid to insure a reasonable opportunity exists (still can't do anything about poor shooting, poor dog work, etc.).
 
Bilbo Baggins said:
I have a great deal of enjoyment by just being in the field. If I see a pheasant, I am thrilled. If I bag a rooster, I have exceeded my highest expectations. If I bag a limit, I feel like the luckiest man on Earth.
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What more needs to be said. Well put.:thumbsup:
Some of my best stories come from birds i've missed. I have lots of those stories. :(
 
Well, IMO I believe there are certain hunting packages one should expect a certain level of satisfaction.

If you pay $3,000 to hunt for 4-5 days and you shoot 2 birds. I myself would have a serous problem.

Price List for Hunting Season 2009-2010
(Sept. 1, 2009 - Mar. 31, 2010)

Hunting Packages

Parties of Six or More $2650.00 per hunter
Five Hunters $2850.00 per hunter
Four Hunters $3050.00 per hunter
Three Hunters $3250.00 per hunter
Two Hunters $3450.00 per hunter
Single Hunter $3650.00 per hunter
Dove Combo $1050.00 extra per hunter

Packages include:

Three full days of hunting
Four nights of deluxe accomodations
All meals and beverages included
Trap & Skeet range
All ammunition provided
Six pheasants per day (18 birds total)
Extra pheasants at $40 per bird
Quail $20 per bird.

_____________________________________

You best shoot birds for this kind of money and I would expect limits.

Well hunting on my own, I expect nothing. I enjoy the time in the field, time spent with friends, good dog work, Etc. The game bag being full? you have to admit is a very good feeling. I have all kinds of people ask to go hunting with us in South Dakota. I rarely take anybody. I just don't like being under pressure to make sure that these people get birds. For many of these people, it might be their only trip ever to South Dakota. Kind of a trip of a lifetime. I just don't want to be in charge of their dream hunt. I have been there and never shot a bird. That can be tough to swallow sometimes but I'm back again at a later date. That's just the way it is. Stay with it long enough and the good days come and their always worth it. Most people see and hear South Dakota as, the birds just rain from the sky. That's just not the way it is but convince others of that after the way many outfitters and hunters brag it up. It can be very good but you can come home skunked just as well. Nothing is a guarantee but try and tell others that. Most that I turn down just think your being a jerk and don't want them along. Not at all but I don't want to hear, ya he dragged me all the way out there and we didn't shoot anything. They run around telling people that you mislead them and this was their only time they might ever get to go anywhere to hunt.

You want to know who really expects results? The guys wife...you spent this much money and got nothing? You will hear it every time you get together with them. She will never let you forget that you took her husband and cost them all this money and got them NOTHING. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't kind of thing.
 
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Finding birds for my dogs is important. I'm not saying that hunting pheasants is all about shooting birds, but I will say it is very much about finding them. I have a hard time appreciating a full day afield when my poor dogs see nothing. Some of the best hunts I can remember involved walking for several hours and only harvesting 1 bird. When my dogs and I work very hard as a team and come away with 1 hard-earned bird, we usually celebrate by rolling around on the ground back at the truck or right in the middle of the field. There is a certain kind of satisfaction I get from a hunt like that. I've been very satisfied by hunts that didn't yeild any birds in the bag, but it's b/c my dogs at least got some hen action. I can't remember a single time I was completely disappointed at the end of the day pheasant hunting, though there have been some quail hunts that made me wish I'd kept the dogs at home and let them play in the yard. Concerns about bird #'s for me are directly related to the dogs.

As onpoint has stated, throw $ into the equation and my dogs had better get some good bird action........this is probably why I haven't ventured into the world of outfitters. I can't imagine being disappointed after a pheasant hunt. Freelance hunting always provides a sense of satisfaction for me.
 
OP and TM,
I think what we are talking about goes well beyond the high dollar operations, I bet UGUIDE can attest to this. 3 birds a day is the expectation. Granted if I go to a place that releases birds I might reasonably have a different expectation. But that is like high fence big game hunting to me and not really hunting.
 
Being There -- in the Uplands

My friends and I enjoy just being out in nature and walking the fields in the fresh air, feeling our legs, hearts and lungs working, all with our much loved dogs. During the drought years I hunted all day some weekends and bagged nothing. One drought year weekend my buddy and I trod 17 miles over Sat. and Sun., each firing one round, bagging nothing. Our feelings about it were admittedly mixed, but we felt good about ourselves and our hunting capabilities considering we were and are in the afternoon, if not the evening, of our lives. We had shown ourselves once again that we we could do everything in the field that an upland bird hunter needed to do. I find a lot of satisfaction in that.
 
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moellermd said:
OP and TM,
I think what we are talking about goes well beyond the high dollar operations, I bet UGUIDE can attest to this. 3 birds a day is the expectation. Granted if I go to a place that releases birds I might reasonably have a different expectation. But that is like high fence big game hunting to me and not really hunting.
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Well certainly when you pay the expectation changes. The consumer expects "value" and that value can be different for different poeple.

I had an outfitter from Texas call me in hopes of lining up a trip for his upland clients that he would normally go out and release birds for them in local area and then they went to Kansas as well. I was interested to learn that his clients would not be satisfied if they shot less than 20-25 birds per day but they "wanted to experience the South Dakota thing". I feel sorry for the hunters that don't understand what the real deal is.

I also had hunters that have enjoyed good hunts but "just once in their lifetime wanted to see the best of the best or the 1000 bird day or 1000 bird flush". And who woulnd't want to see that once but even I would rather have a little chuck of ground to hunt solo on as my preference.
 
UGUIDE said:
Well certainly when you pay the expectation changes. The consumer expects "value" and that value can be different for different poeple.

I had an outfitter from Texas call me in hopes of lining up a trip for his upland clients that he would normally go out and release birds for them in local area and then they went to Kansas as well. I was interested to learn that his clients would not be satisfied if they shot less than 20-25 birds per day but they "wanted to experience the South Dakota thing". I feel sorry for the hunters that don't understand what the real deal is.

I also had hunters that have enjoyed good hunts but "just once in their lifetime wanted to see the best of the best or the 1000 bird day or 1000 bird flush". And who woulnd't want to see that once but even I would rather have a little chuck of ground to hunt solo on as my preference.
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Interesting comments Uguide: I think this all comes down the business Niche you are targeting, which is a basic Business principle. It is my perception that, in your operation, you are targeting those hunters who are looking for a true wild hunting experience. With all wild hunting experiences, a person takes the risk that things may not work out as far as the harvest is concerned. That fact alone is what makes a wild bird hunt enjoyable because you have to experience days when things don't go well to really enjoy those days when it does work out.

However I think you are wanting to show the client that the opportunity exists on your property to havest a limit of birds. The rest is up to the hunter's skill and other factors such as weather and crops in the field.
 
landman said:
Interesting comments Uguide: I think this all comes down the business Niche you are targeting, which is a basic Business principle. It is my perception that, in your operation, you are targeting those hunters who are looking for a true wild hunting experience. With all wild hunting experiences, a person takes the risk that things may not work out as far as the harvest is concerned. That fact alone is what makes a wild bird hunt enjoyable because you have to experience days when things don't go well to really enjoy those days when it does work out.

However I think you are wanting to show the client that the opportunity exists on your property to havest a limit of birds. The rest is up to the hunter's skill and other factors such as weather and crops in the field.
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Well said Landman. You are exactly right. We like the blue collar friends and family guy/gals and have steered away from the all-inclusive high buck clientel. I think the magic really happens when you put a camp together with right elements and then the rest happens when mother nature shows you her hand and this is one of the elements beyond our control.
 
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