What went wrong?

FCSpringer

Super Moderator
I think the real question might be "What went right?". Short and flip , not much. By focusing on what is still right or at least OK, currently, analyzing how and why what works is still there and working, gives us a chance to use incentives and education to encourage techniques which will result in the same. Might sound simple, but it's going to take dollars to fix this. Along with public opinion. Ifyou pay farmers to grow iron weeds, what they make on corn, we would have a lot of iron weeds to hunt in!
Great idea, but public sentiment seems to think we pay but there is way less in "we" get to hunt. If farmers want to get that kind of doe to sit on the rear end, they need to allow hunting on the land for the ones footing the bill.:thumbsup:
 

haymaker

Active member
Great idea, but public sentiment seems to think we pay but there is way less in "we" get to hunt. If farmers want to get that kind of doe to sit on the rear end, they need to allow hunting on the land for the ones footing the bill.:thumbsup:
That is excactly how it works now. The hunters that pay the bill are the ones that get to hunt. The question is how high does the bill have to be to keep up with corn, beans and wheat? In my area a quarter of land just sold for $4025 an acre. How much should a good days hunt on that land be worth.
Also if you want to come and keep up with me while I sit on my rear, plan on quite a few 100 plus hour weeks. This time of year it is only 50 or so.
 

oldandnew

New member
Great idea, but public sentiment seems to think we pay but there is way less in "we" get to hunt. If farmers want to get that kind of doe to sit on the rear end, they need to allow hunting on the land for the ones footing the bill.:thumbsup:
Indemnification and grant of hunting rights could be a component in a restructred set aside program. We don't need to force anybody, this is a voluntary proposal. I think it would be attractive to absentee landlords, rather than mess with a cash renter. The USFG open land and waters program is vastly superior to the old CRP program for wildlife habitat.
 

moellermd

Super Moderator
ADM, Monsanto, and Cargill. They did it with malice and aforethought. The bitter irony is none of us has been to ANWAR to see the caribou, but instead the environmental lobby seems to be content to allow the lower 48 to be turned into one large Round Up Ready cornfield. Hey, did you see where the polar bears are so overcrowded they have started eating each other?
Oh no they have gotten to you too.
 

UGUIDE

New member
Indemnification and grant of hunting rights could be a component in a restructred set aside program. We don't need to force anybody, this is a voluntary proposal. I think it would be attractive to absentee landlords, rather than mess with a cash renter. The USFG open land and waters program is vastly superior to the old CRP program for wildlife habitat.
I think we have an excellent measure as to what it will take to open CRP lands in central south dakota to public hunting. James River CREP was funded for an additional 40% of the rent or typically $40/acre to have that ground be open access for hunters.

Lets say someone put in 1000 acre field. $40 X 1000 would be $40,000/year. *By the way if the rent on that ground went from $100/acre to $150 then the open access cost would go from $40 to $60/acre....in this system).

Or on the private side someone could charges 40 hunters $1000/each for about the same net return to the landowner. Or 80 hunters at $500/eac.

But then the 80 hunters that are paying less would complain about paying too much and having too much hunting pressure on the property. The landowner would get tired of this and go back to charging more to the few hunters that are happy to pay the $1000.

Right here we have 3 examples of how to "get it done". We are fools to think it won't cost $ to tie up private acres for our interests whether they be shagging roosters, deer or clean well water or cleaning up the dead zone in the gulf.
 

oldandnew

New member
Oh no they have gotten to you too.
It's the constant exposure to dangerous farm chemicals. It rots the mind makes us susseptable to dangerous and sedious thoughts against the big ag empire. Some us are not as strong against the force as you are.
 

FCSpringer

Super Moderator
That is excactly how it works now. The hunters that pay the bill are the ones that get to hunt. The question is how high does the bill have to be to keep up with corn, beans and wheat? In my area a quarter of land just sold for $4025 an acre. How much should a good days hunt on that land be worth.
Also if you want to come and keep up with me while I sit on my rear, plan on quite a few 100 plus hour weeks. This time of year it is only 50 or so.

This wasn't intended to be a Haymaker bashing. So no need to go there and read a bunch of things in the post. It was just a figure of speach. My family and relly's farm several thousand acres as well so I am aware of what goes on. I grew up on a farm. I think I know a bit about hard work. I do it every day. If we expect tax dollars "Not well off fellows that want to buy a bird", Pay the same money for set aside land and CRP the land owners better be ready to give a little as well. It will never happen. I say till it all, over produce, raise birds in your own little oasis. And let the market crash. Land values will fall again, and grain prices plumit. Then CRP will be back in full swing again. Or the new age dust bowl could do the job as well.:rolleyes:
 

UGUIDE

New member
I say till it all, over produce, raise birds in your own little oasis. And let the market crash. Land values will fall again, and grain prices plumit. Then CRP will be back in full swing again. Or the new age dust bowl could do the job as well.:rolleyes:
FCS, the sooner the better right. I think you are right in that the one thing we know will bring back CRP is a grain glut, high supply and low demand. Hopefully we are beyond the dust bowls days coming back. Conservation farming has come a long way. Strip till is catching on in southern MN. With all the no-till in SD I see more dust blow in southern MN than SD.

I think grain marketing will be much more difficult to predict highs and lows due to global drivers which many will not be able to understand. Just like our stock market is reacting now to the multitude of foreign markets.

One could say we are not in recession right now. This is a new economy.
 
hey coot i think the tax should be $5 per foot. how many feet did you put in this fall 28,000:confused:
Alright butt brain. Tax based on the improvement on land. 600 dollars per acre is the general rule add it to the property taxes however thats figured roughly 2-3 dollars per acre a year. As the tiller said we keep this up it's only going to give farmers a bigger target on their backs. See I'm willing to do it. Farmers give a little to conservation they buy/make a little habitat which makes hunters happy:thumbsup: who spend their money In towns accross the country:thumbsup: Don't sound bad to me.
Oh BC my brother so I can call him a butt brain:D
 
I think that aphid spraying the one thats doing the damage. Last year airplane was spraying beans are a few robbins were in there and it dropped them right there. I didn't go out and look not my field but I'm sure it killed them by the way they dropped. Early aug. is when alot of this spraying takes place and all the baby ducks, bugs, and baby pheasant sitings stopped. Can't be helping.
 

niceshot

New member
Crop dusting

captaincoot you are exactly right. If you live in Iowa you have probably noted the dramatic increase in crop dusting airplanes in the last 3 years. I suspect almost every soybean field in the county where I live was dusted this past year. Herbicide is one thing, but insecticide at this level and applied in this manner is scary. I was riding my bike to a local gravel pit for a swim this summer and got dusted by an airplane. I could feel the insecticide on my skin and the smell was nauseating. oldandnew might be on to something, neurotoxin damaging my brain. Guys on the golf course have had the same experience. Anyway this is probably lethal to young pheasant chicks in July and August and any that survive have fewer bugs to eat. Now they are starting to talk about corn aphids. Hard to see how the pheasants have a chance.
 

FCSpringer

Super Moderator
FCS, the sooner the better right. I think you are right in that the one thing we know will bring back CRP is a grain glut, high supply and low demand. Hopefully we are beyond the dust bowls days coming back. Conservation farming has come a long way. Strip till is catching on in southern MN. With all the no-till in SD I see more dust blow in southern MN than SD.

I think grain marketing will be much more difficult to predict highs and lows due to global drivers which many will not be able to understand. Just like our stock market is reacting now to the multitude of foreign markets.

One could say we are not in recession right now. This is a new economy.
Your 100% right. It seems to be true that history repeats itself. It is sad and frustrating all the same. But human nature. In construction I see it going on and have for quite some time. The housing market crashed and is still flat, and the other commodity's will do the same just as soon as they flood the market like the housing. When we were at the National in NE, I talked to locals about the amazing amount of CRP down there and the burm implants all over. They all had the same story. They did it because of the dust bowl and it is all coming out soon. It does not matter with no till, if it goes back to all fields, and we get a drought, crop residue will do little to nothing to stop it. We need the grasslands and wetlands. But reality is that the overburdened tax payer is no longer going to foot the bill. Sad days upon the horizon.
 

KBell

New member
I'm glad to see that some of you agree with the application problems of herbicides that we have recently experienced concerning pheasants. It is the only significant change that I believe has had the most dramatic effect.

Moellermd, I would have had to pay and attend three different training sessions just to apply my bundled herbicides on the beans and corn on our family farm. Don't ask concerning the seed corn. Way too many to mention there. Our county weed comissioner was fired last spring for refusing to attend four trainings prior to June 15th. Point is--these new applications are huge chemical company profits and extremely lethal. Much differerent than in the past. Has any witnessed the "zero life" activity in a field just after spraying? I believe we all know what is happening here.

Uguide, my beans and corn are "exactly" where those chicks used to be in late June and July. The aphid applications are the most toxic. Forget the fencelines and ditches--aphid spray sticks to everything. As we all know, pheasants are buffer birds. They live on the edges of row crops all summer long.
 
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