wisturkeyhunter
New member
This fall my go to shotgun is a Wingmaster supermag,28 inch barrel,and a pure gold 15 choke. Shooting winchester xtended range 4's mostly.
What is your go to pheasant gun?
- Thread starter T_Man
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RK... Thanks for explaining the modification. Isn't the Montefeltro an automatic which has "things" that move up and down the magazine tube? Sorry, I'm being impatient. I'm sure all will be revealed in the photo you'll be posting. I want you to know that you have officially pegged the needle on my Unusual Gun Modifications-O-Meter.
No time to shoulder a scattergun for ruffed grouse?
You're doing something wrong, lad.
Many folks have tried for the old Woolner Chopper re a ruffed grosue scattergun....a bicycle grip appears yet another good idea unneeded.
But...one will have that
.
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BrownDogsCan2
Well-known member
SpecialK wtf......I'd really love to see it! lol. Seriously
RK Special K
New member
OldDublin, you've been reading to many "snooty" magazines like the Double Gun Jounal, etc.
The last 10-15 years I actually haven't hunted ruffies that much. Been spoiled on western pheasants. It puts me on a more even playing field with "traditional" gun mounters like most of you folks but in my "heyday", in them thar thicket tangles of northern Michigan, NOBODY beat me to the draw and that ruffie would be laying on the forrest floor before most of my hunting partners started to raise their gun.
Not saying that my style is "better" but it certainly works for me, especially on ruffies. Keep in mind also, that I did ALL my ruffie hunting WITHOUT a dog so factor that in. To this day, I don't like knowing when or from where the bird is about to flush. It throws my timing off.
Did a couple days of serious ruffie hunting in NW Minnesota after pheasant hunting this year. I'm either getting older or I've been re-conditioned a bit by open field bird shooting(or both). It was a wake up call to how much torque a ruffie has compared to other game birds especially pheasants. The confines of the thick woods can make them seem quicker and disappear faster also. I did ok but felt a bit "rusty". Like my old timing belt needed tightening for snap and jab poking at those forrest rockets.
I'm a big fan of the late Frank Woolner - have read his book and did a "Woolner conversion" on the Winchester 59. Although at about 6 pounds, I like the gun, but I could never get used to the safety in front of the trigger guard. My younger brother(a Navy Seal) hunts pheasants with me on occasion and he loves the gun. I will probably give it to him.
Oh, I hate weight - if I could find a 2 pound auto with a 6-shot magazine, I would have my dream gun. The Monty 20 comes close enough for now. The reliabilty of a Benelli is peace of mind that's hard to measure. The faster you pull the trigger, the faster the shells are flying out of the receiver. Never a jam!
The last 10-15 years I actually haven't hunted ruffies that much. Been spoiled on western pheasants. It puts me on a more even playing field with "traditional" gun mounters like most of you folks but in my "heyday", in them thar thicket tangles of northern Michigan, NOBODY beat me to the draw and that ruffie would be laying on the forrest floor before most of my hunting partners started to raise their gun.
Not saying that my style is "better" but it certainly works for me, especially on ruffies. Keep in mind also, that I did ALL my ruffie hunting WITHOUT a dog so factor that in. To this day, I don't like knowing when or from where the bird is about to flush. It throws my timing off.
Did a couple days of serious ruffie hunting in NW Minnesota after pheasant hunting this year. I'm either getting older or I've been re-conditioned a bit by open field bird shooting(or both). It was a wake up call to how much torque a ruffie has compared to other game birds especially pheasants. The confines of the thick woods can make them seem quicker and disappear faster also. I did ok but felt a bit "rusty". Like my old timing belt needed tightening for snap and jab poking at those forrest rockets.
I'm a big fan of the late Frank Woolner - have read his book and did a "Woolner conversion" on the Winchester 59. Although at about 6 pounds, I like the gun, but I could never get used to the safety in front of the trigger guard. My younger brother(a Navy Seal) hunts pheasants with me on occasion and he loves the gun. I will probably give it to him.
Oh, I hate weight - if I could find a 2 pound auto with a 6-shot magazine, I would have my dream gun. The Monty 20 comes close enough for now. The reliabilty of a Benelli is peace of mind that's hard to measure. The faster you pull the trigger, the faster the shells are flying out of the receiver. Never a jam!
RK Special K
New member
Calimari,
There are no external moving parts on a Benelli mag tube. Just the internal spring forcing shells toward the receiver. The stock peg is also all internal. Gotta get you the picture.
Also did a bicycle grip conversion on an early H & K Benelli 12ga. auto. Now weighs 5 pounds, 12 ounces. It has a 6 shell mag tube(7 shot total).
There are no external moving parts on a Benelli mag tube. Just the internal spring forcing shells toward the receiver. The stock peg is also all internal. Gotta get you the picture.
Also did a bicycle grip conversion on an early H & K Benelli 12ga. auto. Now weighs 5 pounds, 12 ounces. It has a 6 shell mag tube(7 shot total).
That's an odd comment.
My favorite and most effective grouse scattergun is a 24 inch, 12 BUL, followed by a 16 A5.
Irregardless, as they say around here, of scattergun, bird or cover there is no need to shoot w/o mounting...I hunted dogless as a younker also.
As noted....you are simply doing yourself no favors longterm.
But, up to you.
RK Special K
New member
Well, of course there is no "need" to NOT mount a gun but it's about what you became famliar with, comfortable with and good at. With practice, one can get very good at about anything and, more specifically, at a certain method of shooting.
And, of course, I'm doing myself a BIG favor by staying with what I enjoy and with a method I am quite proficient at.
That said, I am sometimes in awe of "pass shooters" like my uncle who can pick off screaming, "mile high" roosters almost at will. He did the traditional walk and block hunting in SD for over 55 years. A real ace with an A5. Not my area of expertise. For me, those are five shots and a prayer.
In ND and MT, we hunt some pretty rugged and knarly terrain for roosties. Walking downhill around a sidehill plumbthicket then uphill to circle it - then a rooster smashes from a thicket 20 yards behind me from a thicket at the bottom of the revine going hard left. Pure flush/adrenalin ignited instincts and it almost always connects without really knowing why. It happens SO fast. It's just a flinch reaction. My hunting buddies tell me I should wait a bit till it gets further out - but that would take all the fun out of it and cause me to miss more - Why, I would have to go to the skeet range and learn a WHOLE different style of shooting. And I hate skeet and trap ranges - they are so artificial and uncomfortable to be around. And I've never seen any hunter walk around in the field with a gun stock pressed to their shoulder - good grief, that can't be right. Real life wild birds flush at so many different angles, elevations, speeds, weather conditions and tricky terrain and obstacles. In one flush, the angle, elevation and speed can twist and change in less than a second. Mostly VERY unpredictable and cannot, for all practical purposes, be artificially replicated.
And, of course, I'm doing myself a BIG favor by staying with what I enjoy and with a method I am quite proficient at.
That said, I am sometimes in awe of "pass shooters" like my uncle who can pick off screaming, "mile high" roosters almost at will. He did the traditional walk and block hunting in SD for over 55 years. A real ace with an A5. Not my area of expertise. For me, those are five shots and a prayer.
In ND and MT, we hunt some pretty rugged and knarly terrain for roosties. Walking downhill around a sidehill plumbthicket then uphill to circle it - then a rooster smashes from a thicket 20 yards behind me from a thicket at the bottom of the revine going hard left. Pure flush/adrenalin ignited instincts and it almost always connects without really knowing why. It happens SO fast. It's just a flinch reaction. My hunting buddies tell me I should wait a bit till it gets further out - but that would take all the fun out of it and cause me to miss more - Why, I would have to go to the skeet range and learn a WHOLE different style of shooting. And I hate skeet and trap ranges - they are so artificial and uncomfortable to be around. And I've never seen any hunter walk around in the field with a gun stock pressed to their shoulder - good grief, that can't be right. Real life wild birds flush at so many different angles, elevations, speeds, weather conditions and tricky terrain and obstacles. In one flush, the angle, elevation and speed can twist and change in less than a second. Mostly VERY unpredictable and cannot, for all practical purposes, be artificially replicated.
RK Special K
New member
Oh, on the "favors longterm" comment: I started shooting this way at age 11 and am now 57. "Longterm" has come and gone and I'm still doing very well with it. But probably not as good as when I was 25. I considered myself a ruffed grouse ace at that age. My recent Minnesota experience tells me I'm not that good anymore - mostly because I've been away from it to long.
It works plenty good on pheasants though.
It works plenty good on pheasants though.
As I said, up to you.
But, you really do not know what you are...missing.
And if you ever hunt with a dog....I wish it luck.
Bad stuff can happen with bad ideas.
Bad ideas also get spread over the Internet to less experienced folks who believe very easily that time is fleeting on any bird's flush(and, at times, it is but one will have that) and poor decisions can then result.
Killing the bird at all odds or employing a Paladin-level of scattergun slinging ....regardless of age, a poor first call.
I have never seen many (G)rousehunters who rate themselves an "ace".
I have seen a few.
Value and perspective and reality of the process most often rears it's ugly head and ace becomes a rookie term.
RE organized clays....a skeet field, properly employed, will make anyone(well, most) a better game shot as it enables familiarization with a scattergun as well as practicing that all important second shot or second barrel.
Other games run more according to the Hoyle of the moment, much less so...especially SCs. Their value lies within the game shot itself and the competition aspect.
The comment about shooting with the "gun pressed to the shoulder" clearly implies your understanding of the value of a skeet field have been hamstrung early on by a bit of reverse clay snobbery and poor use of the skeet facilities.
For those new-er to all of this scattergunning stuff.....sift well what is posted on Internet message boards.
And watch those pups who do not always operate according to Hoyle theirownself.
But, you really do not know what you are...missing.
And if you ever hunt with a dog....I wish it luck.
Bad stuff can happen with bad ideas.
Bad ideas also get spread over the Internet to less experienced folks who believe very easily that time is fleeting on any bird's flush(and, at times, it is but one will have that) and poor decisions can then result.
Killing the bird at all odds or employing a Paladin-level of scattergun slinging ....regardless of age, a poor first call.
I have never seen many (G)rousehunters who rate themselves an "ace".
I have seen a few.
Value and perspective and reality of the process most often rears it's ugly head and ace becomes a rookie term.
RE organized clays....a skeet field, properly employed, will make anyone(well, most) a better game shot as it enables familiarization with a scattergun as well as practicing that all important second shot or second barrel.
Other games run more according to the Hoyle of the moment, much less so...especially SCs. Their value lies within the game shot itself and the competition aspect.
The comment about shooting with the "gun pressed to the shoulder" clearly implies your understanding of the value of a skeet field have been hamstrung early on by a bit of reverse clay snobbery and poor use of the skeet facilities.
For those new-er to all of this scattergunning stuff.....sift well what is posted on Internet message boards.
And watch those pups who do not always operate according to Hoyle theirownself.
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RK Special K
New member
Ok, I can take back the "ace" comment and rephrase it this way: I was satisfied with my ability to hit most reasonable opportunities presented. But honestly, I had little to compare it to - I'm sure their are better shots than me using a different method. But grouse hunting is more than just a shooting method of course - it's also about hunting method and positioning oneself to be able to react and shoot.
With the exception of rudimentary shotgun operation and handling, I believe learning to field shoot on skeet, trap or sporting clays is a "bad" idea and counter-productive. You simply SHOULD NOT begin learning to react to flushes from an already mounted position - it's just damn silly.
These are nothing more than playing shuffeboard, darts or bowling with a shotgun. They are artificial shooting games.
With the exception of rudimentary shotgun operation and handling, I believe learning to field shoot on skeet, trap or sporting clays is a "bad" idea and counter-productive. You simply SHOULD NOT begin learning to react to flushes from an already mounted position - it's just damn silly.
These are nothing more than playing shuffeboard, darts or bowling with a shotgun. They are artificial shooting games.
RK Special K
New member
It's not about "killing the bird at all odds". It's about learning and employing a method that works for you in the "real world" of upland bird hunting. All of us are about trying to hit the target.
On dogs: I've never been completely convinced that hunting animals with other animals is "fair chase". A more pure form of hunting is man alone against animal. Man and dog is TWO against ONE. If it were just a recent idea, it would be labeled "unethical" by a purist. But since it is overwhelmingly tradition, I certainly accept it. But I avoid it for myself.
On dogs: I've never been completely convinced that hunting animals with other animals is "fair chase". A more pure form of hunting is man alone against animal. Man and dog is TWO against ONE. If it were just a recent idea, it would be labeled "unethical" by a purist. But since it is overwhelmingly tradition, I certainly accept it. But I avoid it for myself.
STRUGL4XS'C
New member
plus one on that! The only thing better than hunting with this gun is hunting with a Brittany;sometimes we get to do both at the same time!:thumbsup:
wisturkeyhunter
New member
Shooting from a low gun position is always an option in sporting clays and shooting it often WILL improve your game shooting. Same for the other clay games they just don't offer the variety. Wish I had a dollar for every guy out there who said they suck at clays but are awesome on birds. It's true until their only shot all day is a 45 yard crosser at speed.
Hunting birds without dogs results in way more lost game but it's more ethical? Weird logic that.
Another guy who can't because of his own made up limitations looking down on those who can.
Of course maybe you're just trolling the board looking for somebody to bite.
Hunting birds without dogs results in way more lost game but it's more ethical? Weird logic that.
Another guy who can't because of his own made up limitations looking down on those who can.
Of course maybe you're just trolling the board looking for somebody to bite.
STRUGL4XS'C
New member
Oh ok,I see now,I picked a heck of a spot to put my first post; I looked at the original question then read down till saw fine light side by side,didnt realize post had gotton off track sorry.
One does not have to shoot skeet targets with a mounted scattergun.
Clays are targets. Clays shot are, by and large, artificial shooting games.....kinda hard to be anything else but they don't claim to be anything else. Point is tho,from skeet especially, and with many other clays one can learn to shoot better by working on gun familiarization, focus, follow thru, and much more...all within the constraints the shooter sets.....gun position being but one....and skeet is most cost effective.
If one wishes to compete or a range sets some requirements then a shooter may be limited...but that is far from a given.
Learn a bit or consider not putting out bad info.
The "real world" is not as you prefer to imagine it....thankfully.
I hunted w/o a dog for location and economic reasons early on as well as fairness to the dog, in my mind, due to my work....I missed much of value while still killing birds.
Fair chase being abandoned with a dog is just plain silly and speaks to, again, a bit more thought needed past the agendas and snobbery.
I won't waste words relating what birddog owners know....just feel sorry for you.
I'm sorry that you are unable to realize the multiple plusses and minuses a pup brings...for each has a value in developing us as a birdhunter, a dog owner, a thinking sportsman-conservationist...and, many times, a better, rounded and grounded, person.
I'm sorry that you are content with the menu and not the meal, in other words.
Your concept of hunting purity and ethics related to no dogs and, supposedly, one hunter afield puts your previous posts in a clearer light...I thank you.
Many times, the more posts...the more clarity.
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birdshooter
Well-known member
A quote from our former yet famous Governor of Minnesota Jessie Ventura "You haven't hunted till you've hunted man" Now that's REAL hunting in it's purest form when the game can shoot back.
All kidding aside. Most of us hunt upland birds BECAUSE of the dog work, the killing of the bird is just a bonus. Personally, If I could not hunt upland birds without a dog, that would be the end of my bird hunting.
Now.... i do have a question on your specialized way of shooting birds. When did the act of shooting a bird become a race to see how fast it can be shot?
I guess I don't quite understand the thought process behind it. Could you explain??
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dead pheasants forever
Member
Back to guns . . .
I got a really good deal on a Beretta Ultralight Gold 12 ga. O/U this past January. It's somewhere between 6 and 6.5 lbs. Really liking it so far. My go to pheasant gun before that was a Beretta A303 12 ga. that I got at an estate sale. My quail gun and sometimes pheasant gun is a Beretta BL-3 20 gauge IC/M. It's about 5.5 lbs and is probably my favorite shotgun.
I got a really good deal on a Beretta Ultralight Gold 12 ga. O/U this past January. It's somewhere between 6 and 6.5 lbs. Really liking it so far. My go to pheasant gun before that was a Beretta A303 12 ga. that I got at an estate sale. My quail gun and sometimes pheasant gun is a Beretta BL-3 20 gauge IC/M. It's about 5.5 lbs and is probably my favorite shotgun.
onpoint
Active member
A quote from our former yet famous Governor of Minnesota Jessie Ventura "You haven't hunted till you've hunted man" Now that's REAL hunting in it's purest form when the game can shoot back.
All kidding aside. Most of us hunt upland birds BECAUSE of the dog work, the killing of the bird is just a bonus. Personally, If I could not hunt upland birds without a dog, that would be the end of my bird hunting.
Now.... i do have a question on your specialized way of shooting birds. When did the act of shooting a bird become a race to see how fast it can be shot?
I guess I don't quite understand the thought process behind it. Could you explain??
When it comes to Ruff Grouse, the bird decides it's a race. about 95% of the time, if your not on your game and fast, fast, fast. The bird is long gone. I have taken more people then I can count hunting for Ruffies. I have also seen more times then I can count, the shotgunner who never even got his/her gun raised to mount and heard them say. Damn they are fast..I never even got my gun up to shoot. I been raised in Ruff Grouse country and shot 100s of them. If your bringing your pheasant hunting skills to the grouse woods. You best buy a TV dinner for supper at grouse camp, because your going to be going hungry otherwise. On the same note, I have brought my Grouse hunting skills to the pheasant fields and blew them to pieces by shooting way to fast and to close.
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