What do you consider a big running dog?

[SetterNut]

Old-n-new
My experience has been the multiple dogs working a CRP patch is sigmificantly more effecting than one or two. Especially if they are working at different ranges.

It has also been my experience that in cover like wheat stubble where they can really run if they choose, a bigger running dog can get on the other side of some of them, and they will hold a bit better. But you are still going to have some that blow out.

 

[OKIEGunner]

One thing for sure, more dogs, of all persuasions really make pheasants nervous and give you an advantage. I have frequently run 6 pups all at one time, in thick 160A CRP quarters, some big runners, some closer, birds freeze and hold everywhere. I am convinced it's because the birds couldn't keep track of that number of moving pieces, with no discernable pattern. I have hunted the same areas with 2 dogs and had proportional success, but nothing like the army of barkness approach. Of course I have a heck of a time keeping track of all the dogs too!

SetterNut,

What you describing is what I have referred too as "Pack Hunting". I learned this technique many years ago. The silent army of (4,6,7,8) dogs will confuse, block & ultimately surround the birds that normally get away and ones that we never would have seen or found.

 

[FCSpringer]

You also have to keep in mind the wind. I hunt pheasants with a lab and into the wind I like them 40 yds or less. However, with a cross wind she will range a little further ahead and when we have to hunt with the wind she will cast out to 75 or 80 yds and hunt back, which is fine with me. She may flush birds too far to shoot but she is also covering a lot more ground and thus finding more birds. Some of which will be between her and I which is what you want. Lots of variables to that question, most importantly I want to know she is hunting for me and not for her!

Thats how its done.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::10sign::10sign::10sign:

 

[FCSpringer]

If you are going to let a spaniel run-out 100 yards around here,you are going to see a lot of birds,but you will never get a shot at one.

Depends on the wind, but 100 is pushing it. I hear about the 30 yard thing being the max!. I'm like What? what about the down wind? your just pushing birds not hunting them. Same in a cross wind... If you see a good dog use the wind right you will see a dog that takes big bites down wind any direction and hunts back to you using the wind. A boot licker running flat in any wind is Not what you want in a Spaniel... Or any breed for that matter.

 

[FCSpringer]

'Hunting with me and not for himeslf' must be more a flusher thing.
My setters may be out at 150, point and will wait, with impatient looks, untill I arrive....we are hunting as a team.
Not always bowl-qualified but a team nonetheless.

Distance has absolutely nothing to do with a dog self-hunting.

Bring that pointy thing up and I'LL take you out and show you what a flushing team player can do.:thumbsup:

 

[FCSpringer]

In this area, I would say a big running dog is going to spend most of its time outside of 150 yards. I consider mine to be a medium range dog working in the 50 -150 yard range.

But when I took him out west into big open county (NW Kansas) in Wheat Stubble, he was well outside 150 most of the time and some of the time at 250+. He could see me, and kept pushing out to pin birds. The cover in the area greatly changes the definition of big running.

Are there times on pheasants that a pointing dog can't hold the bird long enough for you to get there. Sure, but with a closer working dog you would see very few of these birds. I can tell you that we shot some birds that were pointed at over 150 yards that we would not have gotten otherwise, and we saw some that flew off long before we got there.

You make trade-offs with any type dog you choose. Pick the one you like.

But on quail, there is no question that pointing dogs that are out there covering objectives is a big help. Heck in some parts of the country it is illegal to hunt quail with anything other than a pointing dog

Who made you so smart.:cheers::10sign::10sign::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[ranchodeluxe]

Good hunting dogs factor in wind direction and terrain,as well.On a section of railroad track that I walk daily,sometimes hunting,sometimes just out for a stroll,there is a steep south-facing cut on the uphill side where they had to carve the hillside, with several drainages where culverts run underneath that are in-between.The birds congregate there and soak up the sun. I only hunt it when the wind is good,otherwise I save it for another day.My dogs learned very quickly that if they just run from the tracks straight uphill,the birds bust over the top and they never get a retrieve.They will hunt the drainage,then sneak around the backside,up to the crop field,then bust over the top to push the birds straight across the tracks where I am waiting.Ray Charles could take it from there.Who knows how far they are as they get into position,doesn't matter,but when they start to hunt,that's when you want'em in gun range.

 

[OldDublin]

Bring that pointy thing up and I'LL take you out and show you what a flushing team player can do.:thumbsup:

Uh, never said a flusher was not part of a team.
My point was that closeness in distance does not determine partnership, being a team....or success.
Success afield comes from good dogs and all the other fiddly stuff....not from any breed of dog preference.

Had I a flusher then I would be as happy at day's end as now.
'Cause it would be my dog and I would have been there.

 

[FCSpringer]

Uh, never said a flusher was not part of a team.
My point was that closeness in distance does not determine partnership, being a team....or success.
Success afield comes from good dogs and all the other fiddly stuff....not from any breed of dog preference.

Had I a flusher then I would be as happy at day's end as now.
'Cause it would be my dog and I would have been there.

:cheers::10sign::thumbsup: Thats the spirit. Me concure.

 

[birdshooter]

The question posed by the OP is " What do you consider a big running dog"? We'll.... first you would have to define what type of cover were hunting vs what breed of dog. If I'm hunting sharptail grouse in short grass wide open expansive prairie with a pointer, I would much prefer them to range further, 150 yards in this environment is not too big and it's a no brainer that in this case a wider ranging dog will find more birds. Now... you put this same dog in some chest high CRP and unless this dog is just a run off, he should adjust his range naturally. Depending on the circumstances, 50 yards may be his range in this case.

Most well bred dogs regardless of breed will adjust their range to the cover their in. You also have to weigh in the level of training and the trust you have in that training. For instance, A pointing breed who is not staunch or has not had much in the way of bird work/exposure thus is not steady on their birds, would likely be disaster if left to run beyond gun range at will. On the flip side a well trained pointer who is staunch and has learned not to crowd their birds will be a delight to hunt over and you as a hunter will likely walk less.

So to sum this all up and answer the original question on "what is a big running dog" will entirely depend on three things.

1. the breed
2. the type of cover your hunting
3. the level of training the dog has attained and the trust you have in that training.

 

[SetterNut]

The question posed by the OP is " What do you consider a big running dog"? We'll.... first you would have to define what type of cover were hunting vs what breed of dog. If I'm hunting sharptail grouse in short grass wide open expansive prairie with a pointer, I would much prefer them to range further, 150 yards in this environment is not too big and it's a no brainer that in this case a wider ranging dog will find more birds. Now... you put this same dog in some chest high CRP and unless this dog is just a run off, he should adjust his range naturally. Depending on the circumstances, 50 yards may be his range in this case.

Most well bred dogs regardless of breed will adjust their range to the cover their in. You also have to weigh in the level of training and the trust you have in that training. For instance, A pointing breed who is not staunch or has not had much in the way of bird work/exposure thus is not steady on their birds, would likely be disaster if left to run beyond gun range at will. On the flip side a well trained pointer who is staunch and has learned not to crowd their birds will be a delight to hunt over and you as a hunter will likely walk less.

So to sum this all up and answer the original question on "what is a big running dog" will entirely depend on three things.

1. the breed
2. the type of cover your hunting
3. the level of training the dog has attained and the trust you have in that training.

One comment about range and training on a pointing dog.
One big mistake people make with a young pointing dog is to try to keep them in gun range because they may bust birds.

This does two bad things:
1) It limits the dogs range in open country where you want the range.
2) It increases the temptation of the hunter to shoot a busted bird. Shooting birds that are busted by a pointing dog is a good what to end up with a "flushing dog" from pointing dog parents. If you shoot busted birds, you will end up seeing few pointed bird. You got to have some self discipline or you can't expect your pointing dog to have any.