I use 12ga. 2 3/4" lead #6's Fiochi golden pheasants, nickle plated, (washed),over a pointing dog. In non toxic area's I use #5 2 3/4" Kent's tungten-matrix, 1400 FPS, 1 1/4 ounce. I have never had any complaint. I use pointing dogs, or a very tractable lab. I shot hundreds with a 20ga. light target loads, 3/4 ounces of lead, #7 1/2's ,but I got behind a big old pointed rooster, in the last row of grass in a bean field, with 6" snow, and I filled him with lead with my quail loads, 5 shots,( Kansas), my dog had to run him down. Unsettled since, I use a little more umph since. I shoot the 6#s on quail too, in pheasant country. I am trying steel this year, I got over the abomniable loads of the late eighties. Only took me 28 years! I'll see how they perform.