unethical

[Toad]

IMO, you didn't do anything wrong. He got his dog back, and your hunt wasn't ruined, so no harm no foul. I don't really understand why the other guy deserves any nut kicking... Everything worked out fine...

I can't imagine hunting within a 1/2 mile of a stranger, so I guess I can't appreciate how this could even happen to somebody. If I see somebody coming towards me over the hill, I go the other way... Maybe if the cover was thick enough I didn't realize somebody was there.

FWIW, my pup doesn't listen too well sometimes. I have no intention of putting a collar on her this season. I'm still trying to build her confidence above making her obey. If somebody was hunting within 200 yards of me, she would surely end up in front of them at some point, and I would probably end up whistling and hollering for her to come while walking the other way. If she was on point, I'm sure she wouldn't come either and I would be in the same situation you described above. Not wanting to get in front of your guns, I would probably just keep my distance and let you flush and shoot the bird.
If I was irritated about anything, it would be that I was hunting so close to somebody I didn't know and I would either feel bad because I potentially ruined somebody else's hunt or be pissed that they had walked in on my hunt. Regardless, it just seems to me like both parties made the best of an awkward situation that could easily happen to any of us.
I still don't understand the reason for the nut kicking? Are we all just a bit teste today?:laugh:

 

[TheRiley]

I'm still trying to build her confidence above making her obey.

I think you have this backwards. It is pretty important that your dog obeys above anything else. It is dangerous for a dog to not respond to a recall. A young pup doesn't always know potential danger when it sees it.

Unless you hunt in a fenced in area with no cliffs, predators, flowing water, roads, etc. I would recommend not taking a dog hunting until it obeys at very least a recall.

Aside from that...according to the story was the dog in question was not a pup but a 9 year old...

Also, If the guy is struggling with behavior issues with his dog, he should apologize and/or explain that to the other hunters...not flip out and argue with them.

 

[carptom1]

IMO, you didn't do anything wrong. He got his dog back, and your hunt wasn't ruined, so no harm no foul. I don't really understand why the other guy deserves any nut kicking... Everything worked out fine...

I can't imagine hunting within a 1/2 mile of a stranger, so I guess I can't appreciate how this could even happen to somebody. If I see somebody coming towards me over the hill, I go the other way... Maybe if the cover was thick enough I didn't realize somebody was there.

FWIW, my pup doesn't listen too well sometimes. I have no intention of putting a collar on her this season. I'm still trying to build her confidence above making her obey. If somebody was hunting within 200 yards of me, she would surely end up in front of them at some point, and I would probably end up whistling and hollering for her to come while walking the other way. If she was on point, I'm sure she wouldn't come either and I would be in the same situation you described above. Not wanting to get in front of your guns, I would probably just keep my distance and let you flush and shoot the bird.
If I was irritated about anything, it would be that I was hunting so close to somebody I didn't know and I would either feel bad because I potentially ruined somebody else's hunt or be pissed that they had walked in on my hunt. Regardless, it just seems to me like both parties made the best of an awkward situation that could easily happen to any of us.
I still don't understand the reason for the nut kicking? Are we all just a bit teste today?:laugh:

Toad,

As usual you have brought the proper perspective to a muddy post. I withdraw my aforementioned " nut kicking". I hate guys that always look at stuff reasonably.

 

[V-John]

Confidence, then obedience.
I've seen and fostered too many dogs that don't have any confidence and when you give them a command, all they do is hit the ground.
And then they don't obviously follow the command.
Or the ones that have no confidence and run away scared. Had those too.

So, when I first get them and put them in the field, I make them drag a checkcord. And let them have their head. If I need to grab a dog, step on the checkcord.
Once they have their confidence, basic obiedience. Then if they don't follow the command, and yet they know the command, I can correct it.
But if they don't have any sort of confidence, then any corrections will often make the situation worse.

 

[oldandnew]

Confidence, then obedience.
I've seen and fostered too many dogs that don't have any confidence and when you give them a command, all they do is hit the ground.
And then they don't obviously follow the command.
Or the ones that have no confidence and run away scared. Had those too.

So, when I first get them and put them in the field, I make them drag a checkcord. And let them have their head. If I need to grab a dog, step on the checkcord.
Once they have their confidence, basic obiedience. Then if they don't follow the command, and yet they know the command, I can correct it.
But if they don't have any sort of confidence, then any corrections will often make the situation worse.

Well put. The hunting instills the commands. The dog comes to you because you used your time wisely, when it was a pup, and made it your steadfast friend, your friend will always come back, respond to "leave it", when in the presence of a snake or porcupine. It's just like a kid, if you 'hem them in, you eventually let lose a wild rover, dunk on the new found experience of self freedom. If you expect more out of them, they respond, but you have to have faith, make mistakes, learn from it, give them opportunities to succeed, correct the errors carefully. The "COLLAR" Which I rail on against, is a tool, but all the real work gets done the old fashioned way up front. The collar is remedial, like juvenile prison to a pup. If you have to use "prison", rather then the abject "threat", ( scolding can be enough, just verbal, no hitting), you have already lost!

 

[TheRiley]

Confidence, then obedience.
I've seen and fostered too many dogs that don't have any confidence and when you give them a command, all they do is hit the ground.
And then they don't obviously follow the command.
Or the ones that have no confidence and run away scared. Had those too.

So, when I first get them and put them in the field, I make them drag a checkcord. And let them have their head. If I need to grab a dog, step on the checkcord.
Once they have their confidence, basic obiedience. Then if they don't follow the command, and yet they know the command, I can correct it.
But if they don't have any sort of confidence, then any corrections will often make the situation worse.

You argued my semantics but agreed with my point....at least I agree with yours.

You don't want a dog just running free with no control whatsoever.

 

[V-John]

You argued my semantics but agreed with my point....at least I agree with yours.

You don't want a dog just running free with no control whatsoever.

Agreed. But dang, I sure see it in trials sometimes. You know the guy, who has a dog that rarely if ever get's out of the kennel, and it runs off as it has found a new sense of freedom. (Or confidence, however you want to put it) When it is time to pick the dogs up, he's the guy that is chasing his dog around, trying to "catch it".
But as oldandnew so eloquently stated, make the dog your friend.

 

[TheRiley]

Agreed. But dang, I sure see it in trials sometimes. You know the guy, who has a dog that rarely if ever get's out of the kennel, and it runs off as it has found a new sense of freedom. (Or confidence, however you want to put it) When it is time to pick the dogs up, he's the guy that is chasing his dog around, trying to "catch it".
But as oldandnew so eloquently stated, make the dog your friend.

:laugh: Everyone knows "that guy"

 

[Toad]

I'm not a trainer at heart. My goal is a cooperative dog, not necessarily an obedient dog. To each his own. I am very impressed by what I have seen guys do with their labs for waterfowl hunting, but it's not my bag for upland hunting.
My pup usually comes when called but she has her moments of rebellion. E collar or not though, it seems like it would be a bad idea to shock the dog in this scenario. It was pointing birds!

Hey I'm sure I've been "that guy" before, and I've also been the one irritated with another "that guy".

Point taken about being able to call your dog away from potential danger. In NW Kansas, I called my dogs in as they were headed towards a tree with 3 pissed off bobcats in it. At the time, I was not 100% confident that the pup would come immediately, but I was very glad she did. Fortunately we led our dogs in the opposite direction of the tree, and two of the cats came down the tree and ran away from us. The situation could have played out very differently, and badly if the dogs had not listened, especially since they were over 100 yards out at the time I saw the bobcats in the tree ahead. Junie is smaller than an adult bobcat and certainly not fierce enough to make one run away...

So, yes. Totally out of control dog = bad. But I think a bold, confident, cooperative pup that is hunting for you is good, and I will settle for "mostly" under control this season. If that makes me "that guy", I will start wearing a cup when I hunt public land.