Completely agree A5 …no comparison - fortunately we have some better options today - unfortunately $$$. I’m ok with the more expensive option - as others have said - look at total trip costs and spending +$35 is not that big a deal
The truth about Prairie Storm
- Thread starter Bob Peters
- Start date
Road hunting down the gravel road in the middle of the afternoon with corn on the driver side and alfalfa on my side. Deep ditches and a rooster runs from the corn side across the road and into the dirty ditch on my side. There's a decision point in road hunting to either pass by and come back to slowly work your way up to them. or slam on the brakes right on top of them and freeze them in place. This was 30 yards in front of the bumper so it was going to be fast and hard. Stop right on him and he wild flushes at the sound of the brakes. He's at 30 yards by the time I get the door open and the muzzle pointed out. My feet hit the ground and they are on the steep down slope of the ditch. The rooster is dead straight away 40 yards out, perfectly framed by the door opening of the truck, going 5 feet over a mile straight of short and think deep green grass. There's no time to set my feet, mount the gun, aim, follow through- just get a good grip and let her rip from the hip. Down goes the bird, ass up in the short grass, tail waving in wind for a nice and easy retrieve.
Pain focuses the mind and my shoulder was so tender that trip that I was making my first shot count every time. That bird was part of a string over 2 days were I went 7 birds with 8 PS shells in light winds. Just one of them under 30 yards and one double. One shot, clean kills and no cripples. The way I hunt and the places we go in SD, we are surprised when just one rooster gets up. Long shots are par for the course and so is cleaning up on someone else's cripple. High winds are really tough at that range and I will empty my auto to bring down a bird in those conditions but they rarely get away any more. This aint Kansas where every bird is precious- they just keep making more so honestly I don't feel real bad about a couple that get away.
Therefore I need a lot of lead, with a lot of power and coming out fast and/or often- that's what PS and autos are for. RickyBobby's Claybusters Reloads Blue Light Specials in grampy's pre-war 23 gauge single that are deployed at birds off the end of a well worn field boot just isn't me.
Pain focuses the mind and my shoulder was so tender that trip that I was making my first shot count every time. That bird was part of a string over 2 days were I went 7 birds with 8 PS shells in light winds. Just one of them under 30 yards and one double. One shot, clean kills and no cripples. The way I hunt and the places we go in SD, we are surprised when just one rooster gets up. Long shots are par for the course and so is cleaning up on someone else's cripple. High winds are really tough at that range and I will empty my auto to bring down a bird in those conditions but they rarely get away any more. This aint Kansas where every bird is precious- they just keep making more so honestly I don't feel real bad about a couple that get away.
Therefore I need a lot of lead, with a lot of power and coming out fast and/or often- that's what PS and autos are for. RickyBobby's Claybusters Reloads Blue Light Specials in grampy's pre-war 23 gauge single that are deployed at birds off the end of a well worn field boot just isn't me.
birddude
Well-known member
I bet most of us are the opposite. As I have said before, If I lived where there were wild phez, I'd probably hunt them with a 2.75" 20. Mabe a 28. Point being that it's a lot more challenging and rewarding to get a good point and a close shot than birds in the bag. I realize that hunting with a flushing dog is different and that a 12 or 16 is more suitable. I shot a bird from the road once and decided that I didn't drive 500 miles to do that! Back in the day the locals all hunted the way you do. But it aint MY bag! I've only shot 20 gauge 3' mags a couple times on turkeys.
PS, You keep on punishing yourself with recoil and you will develop a flinch that is very hard to overcome. You need an 8-9 lb. gun for that, and I still wouldn't do it! B.T.W. Where is it legal to get 5-6 birds a day? That's all I'm going to say about that.
"Where is it legal to get 5-6 birds a day?"
South Dakota - Party Hunting under the General Laws section - I'm guessing this started years ago with the big group drives - some of the SD residents might have better insight on this. Whether it's two hunters or twenty, it's legal as long as you don't exceed your combined limit, and don't hunt in multiple groups on the same day.
South Dakota - Party Hunting under the General Laws section - I'm guessing this started years ago with the big group drives - some of the SD residents might have better insight on this. Whether it's two hunters or twenty, it's legal as long as you don't exceed your combined limit, and don't hunt in multiple groups on the same day.
We hunt this way out of necessity. My dad wouldn't make it 50 yards in a field, let alone miles due to knee and back issues all his life. But he can get out of the truck in time if they hold nice and he is a reliable blocker. He averages 1 birds a day on these trips so he drives the truck and I guide, flush, shoot, retrieve, clean and cook. I fill out his limit as we are in the same truck and this is legal per SD rules. We just show up on opener and don't get to choose the weather, wind, bird numbers and we still work out a full limit each trip. We like cooking them for people at home so we want to go home with all our birds.
What would you do if you found yourself immobilized and couldn't hunt your accustomed way? My grandpa hunted this way well into his 80s and enjoyed it. We plan to as well. We get opportunities with locals to go out with them and their dogs so we split up and do enjoy it just as much. But nothing beats rolling through the country, listening to the radio, pop and ham samich in hand.
We've been doing it a while and we used to get banged up and eventually flinch from O/Us, a Mossberg pump, Ithaca 37, etc when shooting short mags reloads and then PS shells. Dad went the Beretta Xtrema way and went Versamax as these both shoot PS shells with less recoil than a trap load. I can run and gun all day long without so much as a mark on my shoulder. Problem is my gun jams a lot and he doesn't like to swap for the Beretta so I use what ever extra gun we have. The LOP was shorter on the pump backup we had this year, my timing was way off trying to ruch the next shot and pump at the same time and it banged harder so I paid the price. The birds weren't going to get closer and I wasn't going to start crippling birds and failing to bring them down so I stuck with the PS loads and shot some of the best I've ever done. I've got 25 years doing this and my dad nearly 40 and we immediately notice the birds that should have come down when using lower powered shells in shooting situations we done hundreds of times.
I'm no shell hoarder but if you are in the Twin Cities and looking for 12 gauge PS shells, lately I've been cleaning out most of the east metro Cabelas and Fleet Farms from August till Oct just to get enough for our group and that isn't saying much. But I won't shoot anything else.
What would you do if you found yourself immobilized and couldn't hunt your accustomed way? My grandpa hunted this way well into his 80s and enjoyed it. We plan to as well. We get opportunities with locals to go out with them and their dogs so we split up and do enjoy it just as much. But nothing beats rolling through the country, listening to the radio, pop and ham samich in hand.
We've been doing it a while and we used to get banged up and eventually flinch from O/Us, a Mossberg pump, Ithaca 37, etc when shooting short mags reloads and then PS shells. Dad went the Beretta Xtrema way and went Versamax as these both shoot PS shells with less recoil than a trap load. I can run and gun all day long without so much as a mark on my shoulder. Problem is my gun jams a lot and he doesn't like to swap for the Beretta so I use what ever extra gun we have. The LOP was shorter on the pump backup we had this year, my timing was way off trying to ruch the next shot and pump at the same time and it banged harder so I paid the price. The birds weren't going to get closer and I wasn't going to start crippling birds and failing to bring them down so I stuck with the PS loads and shot some of the best I've ever done. I've got 25 years doing this and my dad nearly 40 and we immediately notice the birds that should have come down when using lower powered shells in shooting situations we done hundreds of times.
I'm no shell hoarder but if you are in the Twin Cities and looking for 12 gauge PS shells, lately I've been cleaning out most of the east metro Cabelas and Fleet Farms from August till Oct just to get enough for our group and that isn't saying much. But I won't shoot anything else.
Wind River
Well-known member
God bless you for getting your Dad out and keeping the fire in him burning for hunting. Shoot what works for you, least not anyone judge another.
If it is legal and the birds are not left half alive, keep enjoying your family tradition and creating more memories.
If it is legal and the birds are not left half alive, keep enjoying your family tradition and creating more memories.
Bob Peters
Well-known member
Confidence is a big part and so is chance. The most important thing is bird/barrel relationship at the time the trigger is pulled. So far all I've seen for people who really like these shells are personal anecdotes. Myself, I don't think there's much science behind these shells being far and away better than others. What does a belted pellet do? I've cut the shells apart before. When I think of these pellets I think; reduced aerodynamics, reduced penetration, less uniformity, unproven technology. The claim is they create a bigger wound channel. As far as the high velocity goes, as I've state earlier, it may well make some difference at short ranges, put past that the difference is negligible, and especially at long ranges the high velocity shell has slowed down so much faster that it's not gonna make a difference. So if you're road hunting and the birds are flushing early, the speed isn't gonna do anything but blacken your bicep if you get a bad mount. These shells will definitely kill, on both ends of the gun. The only thing they get to drop better than birds is excess cash from people's wallets that are brought in by fancy ads and marketing myths.
dakotasj
Well-known member
So, I'm going to weigh in on this discussion and understand I may regret it.
Facts - my opinion and memory--
1. Been carrying a shotgun in the field for 60 years, pheasant hunting 25 years with my Britts.
2. Done the reloading thing for a lot of years.
3. I've used PS for pheasants for several years, 6 or 7, maybe a few more.
4. Prior to PS when I bought shells, bought good quality high brass shells, primarily Remington and Winchester for pheasants. Normally, 2 3/4, 5s.
5. No road hunting. Too big an investment in bird dogs, without them probably wouldn't go nearly as much.
6. Don't waste time, energy, or shells on Hail Mary's. In the past the dogs looked at me funny when I did, so I try not to disappoint them too much.
May not be facts, so judge for yourself, my opinions/beliefs.
1. The price of a box of shells as others have stated, is one of the cheapest expenses I incur to chase pheasants.
2. I cannot recall ever having a bruise from shooting PS, in fact I rarely notice recoil and I'm usually shooting an o/u, 12.
3. I'm pretty sure my coordination, reflexes, balance, strength, eyesight are not nearly what they were 10 or even 4 years ago.
4. I think my average shot distance to the bird has not changed much since switching to PS.
5. I don't think there has been a big change in birds hit percentage.
6. I do believe the number of birds hit and lost has gone down significantly.
7. Fewer birds hit are runners and more are stone dead when recovered. So, I think birds do drop better and the cash difference is insignificant.
7. As a result, I'm more confident with PS and that is most important to me.
8. No, I have not kept statistics, just an old man's memory and beliefs.
I think I've got enough PS in the gun room for my remaining years, but I hope not.
Hope everyone has a wonderful 2023.
Bob Peters
Well-known member
I'm glad you shared your experiences. I know I can have strong opinions on shell ballistics but I always keep an open mind. I read what you said and give it credence, you've definitely been at it a lot longer than me! I guess I spend too much time thinking about things like this
. Maybe since Remington is now under the Vista umbrella along with Federal, we can get those wimpy PS shells at 1500fps bumped up to 1700fps to match the Remington Hypersonics?Shop Hypersonic Steel And More | Remington
Shop & find Hypersonic Steel and more here at Remington. Shop today!
www.remington.com
here is some interesting reading as a footnote, although it concerns waterfowl shells mostly
The Speed Trap: The Truth About High-Velocity Shells
High-velocity shells will kill more ducks and geese, right? Not so fast
www.fieldandstream.com
Notwrking
Member
Well, Tom Knapp has been dead almost 10 years now so we won't get to see if he can outshoot anyone. If he was alive my money would be on him. As for Prairie Storm or any other round, I really don't think what I have been shooting is responsible for missed or wounded birds. It's where the gun was pointed.
I once did the math to estimate how important shot string is, given the velocity of the shot and the speed of a flying pheasant. It really made no difference. I think breaking down shells is more of the same. Interesting and fun facts, but in the end, I shoot 1.1/4 to 1 1/2 oz loads, 5-6 shot. If they reliably chamber and eject, good enough. More money on shells doesn't kill them any better, at least for me.
The best money I spend on shells is what I spend on target loads when I go to the range to practice. And I never spend enough it seems.
I once did the math to estimate how important shot string is, given the velocity of the shot and the speed of a flying pheasant. It really made no difference. I think breaking down shells is more of the same. Interesting and fun facts, but in the end, I shoot 1.1/4 to 1 1/2 oz loads, 5-6 shot. If they reliably chamber and eject, good enough. More money on shells doesn't kill them any better, at least for me.
The best money I spend on shells is what I spend on target loads when I go to the range to practice. And I never spend enough it seems.
benelli-banger
Well-known member
I haven’t read this thread from the beginning, so my question may have been addressed already; I understand that lots of focus is placed on velocity…I know many people believe patterns are compromised with these hyper-sonic shells, vs standard loads at 1100-1250 fps….not sure if this is an issue or not? I’ve probably shot 1,000 roosters since I switched back to 2 3/4” 1.25 oz lead #5 loads at 1220 fps out of an IC choked barrel, sometimes out of a double choked IC/M. Some cripples, for sure…but not enough to consider changing my ammo choice. I’m open to the possibility some of these shells may be superior, but I’m 100% certain that we’re susceptible to marketing ploys! I found a few boxes of paper hulled 2 3/4” loads of my dads that were 50 years old this fall…#5 lead…I used them this fall, they were positively lethal! I’d buy those exact loads if I could…I don’t need the 21st century technology, though it may be better. I’ll accept todays technology at the Dr’s office! Pheasants are the same as they were 50 or 100 years ago…I’ll shoot loads from that era all day long if possible. It’s not about the $, I just don’t like being hussled. To each his own…I spend my big $ on non-toxic shells…standard lead loads work just fine for me if I do my part. Main point/question has to do with integrity of patterns with these high velocity loads…lots of literature out there suggesting that patterns suffer…maybe newer components help in that regard? I just have seen how guys react to “bigger, faster, better” claims…I host many hunters annually, and have been shocked at how many guys ignore my suggestions about shells and chokes…I see what they are buying…not just the PS type stuff, but other choices that have no place in the pheasant fields!
I bought a box of Prairie Storm a number of years ago. Took them out and tried them on late season birds. The birds cooperated that day and I struggled and shot more shells than usual to get my 3.
I put them away till I bought a new Browning 725 Feather over/under and did some informal pattern work. The only choke they seemed to pattern decent out of was IC. All the patterns were tight with the IC being more uniform but still equivalent to a full choke with normal loads. I also tried cylinder choke.
The use I can see for PS is in a single barrel gun after the first shell or two in a IC or Mod. choke. It would create a situation where there is a more open pattern on the first shot or two and later shots would have a tight pattern.
A couple of loads that I have had the best luck with are Federal Hi-Bird #5s (1 and 1/4 oz @ 1330) and Remington Nitro Pheasant 4s (1 and 3/8 oz @ 1330)
I put them away till I bought a new Browning 725 Feather over/under and did some informal pattern work. The only choke they seemed to pattern decent out of was IC. All the patterns were tight with the IC being more uniform but still equivalent to a full choke with normal loads. I also tried cylinder choke.
The use I can see for PS is in a single barrel gun after the first shell or two in a IC or Mod. choke. It would create a situation where there is a more open pattern on the first shot or two and later shots would have a tight pattern.
A couple of loads that I have had the best luck with are Federal Hi-Bird #5s (1 and 1/4 oz @ 1330) and Remington Nitro Pheasant 4s (1 and 3/8 oz @ 1330)
gimruis
Well-known member
Ya, and if you miss, you educate the entire flock. 50 yards is too far to be shooting at birds in the sky.
gimruis
Well-known member
That is exactly how I use mine. Close range IC choke.
A5 Sweet 16
Well-known member
This has been an interesting thread. Regardless of whether you like a duplex load, shot with rings around it, diamond-shaped shot, hyper-velocity loads, cheap, relatively slow chilled lead shot, or whatever.....I firmly believe that assuming your shot has sufficient kinetic energy to kill at the range you're shooting, the most important variable is pattern. And not many people pattern their loads. If you've done much of it, you know how differently one gun/choke combination will treat a particular load from the next gun/choke combination. There may be some generalities & rules of thumb regarding gun/load/choke combos, but none are reliable. They're all different. Back when I did a ton of hand loading, patterning, statistical analysis, etc., I did a lot of this "work" with my friend. We each shot a Benelli Montefeltro, made a couple years apart, w/ 26" barrel. We each had factory Benelli chokes which measured identically. We each had a couple of the same after market chokes that measured identically. Yet sometimes, our seemingly identical guns would treat the same load very differently. It defied reason, but the proof was on the paper. Sometimes I'd put a tighter choke in & get a blown-out pattern. Sometimes the opposite would be true. We saw crazy stuff.
This is a round-about way to my point, which is if you shoot loads that perform well for you, you've almost certainly stumbled onto a load that happens to pattern well in your gun/choke combination. Doesn't matter if you've patterned it. It just does. It's unlikely that it's the velocity, unconventional shot, or anything other than pattern that makes the load kill for you. If you like to think it's the velocity or duplex aspect of the load that kills....that's fine. It's probably not. But keep shooting it & killing pheasants with it, regardless of what type of contradictory logic some guys on here apply to it, myself included.
This is a round-about way to my point, which is if you shoot loads that perform well for you, you've almost certainly stumbled onto a load that happens to pattern well in your gun/choke combination. Doesn't matter if you've patterned it. It just does. It's unlikely that it's the velocity, unconventional shot, or anything other than pattern that makes the load kill for you. If you like to think it's the velocity or duplex aspect of the load that kills....that's fine. It's probably not. But keep shooting it & killing pheasants with it, regardless of what type of contradictory logic some guys on here apply to it, myself included.
gimruis
Well-known member
Has anyone use Winchester Rooster XR? I use the Longbeard XR for turkeys and its changed the way I hunt.
Rooster XR is very expensive and it only comes in a box of 10 shells. That's fine if you're only taking 1 shot each season at a turkey, but for pheasants you'll need significantly more ammo.
Rooster XR is very expensive and it only comes in a box of 10 shells. That's fine if you're only taking 1 shot each season at a turkey, but for pheasants you'll need significantly more ammo.
benelli-banger
Well-known member
I’m amazed at how rare it is for the average hunter to shoot clays prior to the season, myself included! I get around 45-50 hunting days in outside of my home state, so I get lots of practice on birds, starting with sharpies and huns in early September. By the time I wrap up about now, I’ve probably shot at 200-300 birds, maybe more. I do shoot some clays, not a lot. But guys that make 1-2 trips per fall would benefit by buying standard ammo and put the $ they saved at 6,8, 10 rounds of trap, skeet, sporting clays…
Bird Buster
Active member
I bought some boxes of this on sale a few years ago in size 6 shot. It patterns tremendously well and also out to longer yardages. I preferred it over Prairie Storm myself. Funny I guess no one else experienced what I did with PS, too many birds blown to pieces at closer range(20-30 yards) using improved cylinder choke. Never had any other ammo do this ever, stopped shooting it for that reason.
Wind River
Well-known member
I agree with Bird Buster, just too tight of pattern with PS. Since I only shoot a 20ga for upland birds, my kill yardage is <30yds. Shot trap for over 30 years and with handicap often at 24-27yds. Anybody practice from the 27yd line with hunting gun not pre-mounted?? You will be humbled.
The best shells will never overcome poor shot selection. My $.02
The best shells will never overcome poor shot selection. My $.02