Swing thru help

Crossing shot

Crossing shot

New member
Shoot pretty well on level ground. Struggle with hills and tree line shots. Have to use swing through more. Started shooting trap.

My question is where you insert the gun. Say you were shooting quail swing through. Do you insert the gun two feet back, four feet, etc?

Wouldn't be too concerned except getting a shot at a quail is a difficult task. Want to be ready for that first swing thru shot this fall.

Thanks
 
Inserting the gun somewhat depends on the speed of the target and how prepared you are in relation to the target.

With your eye on the clay, insert the gun behind approx. 2-3 feet and move the gun forward of the bird and take the shot, keeping the gun moving through the bird.

"Sporting Clay Magazine" has lots of good suggestions and interesting articles - mainly about sportys, but useful for trap as well. And perhaps a good video on the subject would help you. Look for U-Tube videos, also.

Good luck.
 
Been shooting bobwhite quail for 50+ years over pointing dogs. Short barrel in the thicket or open straight away, best advice is "probe and hope"! If you're gun is choked over light modified or barrel 28" or longer it a disadvantage. I think swing through is valuable for waterfowl, pheasants at a distance. Quail is a short game proposition. Gun familiarity is critical, with a point, never look at the ground, get the gun up, but not mounted, looking forward, while tracking the target with your eyes, point and shoot, like a grouse hunter. My Grand Dad used a full choke Iver Johnson, he waited a while! In open timber, or a bird down the hedgerow, he would succeed. Like everyone I have missed a lot of birds, also shot 3 on a rise, on a great day, and even shot 5 once in a fan spread that was the perfect storm, once. Been bamboozled points dug in there and missed or not shot at all! These days I would be guilty about successes. Those were different times. Now I enjoy the dogs, two birds are enough for me. I am happy their still there. Good Luck, you'll find a style that suits you, and I hope the birds to keep you interested.
 
Right on Old& New

Gil Ash has a lot of good info on shooting clays and birds , he is very relatable .

Google OSP shooting school
 
Stale thread...but it's quail season now.

I'll look up Gil Ash. I used to read a Brit guy named Micheal Yardley's column in a clays rag. I have a book from him on gun fitting. Very pragmatic writer. For some reason, his article on the various techniques of lead shooting stuck with me, at least in part. It was at least 10 years ago. I was so impressed with his writing because when I tried it, it worked well for me.

I see Michael Yardley has a book called Positive Shooting. I'm ordering it. Anything I've read from this guy has been gold.

One thing I catch myself doing, especially when caught in an awkward stance on the flush, is swinging only with my arms. I do much better when I swing my whole body with my knees slightly bent.

I am probably on the other side of the country from Oldandnew. Where I hunt, longer barrels are useful and not often hindered by obstacles. But form the sound of his description, he may be discussing autos/pumps, where they have 6-7" of receiver then the barrel. I shoot mostly side by sides, where there is no long receiver. What a longer barrel (or the additional length of the receiver on a auto/pump) offers is extra sighting radius. The extra length reduces angular sighting error.
 
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I try to get on the bird and then pull the trigger when I move forward of it. I never intentionally start aiming behind the bird with the plan to move through and beyond and then fire.
 
Here is a good short video that discusses the 3 main methods to acquire lead with a shotgun. Sunrise productions puts out a number of videos on shotgun shooting as well as wingshooting and uses their patented "eye Cam" so that you get to see what the shooter sees. Now... there are variations of the 3 basic methods, but this explains the basics of the main three. You may need to be able to use all 3 depending on the distance and speed of the target or bird.

Have a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlAS8SWLd6M
 
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To the original question of how far back to "insert" the gun, I would advise 'never intentionally try to insert the gun behind the bird'. The pass thru shot is a technique for when your target acquisition, body movement, mount, and swing was beat by the bird. My goal is to insert the gun ahead of the target. The reality is that some targets get ahead of my reaction time. The pass thru technique is the tool used to address that situation. The exception is the rising target...like a trap shot. With a trap gun, it will shoot above the point of aim and the shooter will see the target at the time the trigger is pulled. Some trap guns are even adjustable for how high they shoot. With a field gun, skeet gun, or sporting clays gun, they shoot fairly flat or level with the point of aim and the shooter must pass thru the rising target, with the target disappearing below the sighting picture, in order to have proper lead.
 
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Christmas 2013. Hadn't had a shot at a rooster yet. Brother flushes a rooster and it flies over my head. I needed that bird. Decided to take an overhead shot. I was focused on the bird's head and I knew my barrel was on the head. When I realized I was running out of swing, I pushed the gun ahead and pulled the trigger. Not much left to eat.

If I was not desperate for a shot, I would have let the bird pass me, turn and shoot a shot similar to skeet high house one, a swing thru shot.

Usually when I pull the trigger on a quail, the gun is on top of the bird. Works well unless the bird is going downhill. This is a swing thru shot for me. Similar again to high house one. Insert behind the bird, swing thru and pull the trigger.

Usually, unless it is a crossing shot, I focus on the bird's head and pull the trigger. To practice this, I put the barrel on birds' heads when they come to my bird feeder. This year, I will broaden my home practice. I will insert behind the bird, swing through and pull the trigger. I will do this everyday until I am comfortable with my insertion point.
 
When I shot skeet for blood, I never let High 1 out of sight. Since it comes out overhead with a downward trajectory, I'd place the pre-mounted gun such that I could move to keep the target from ever getting under the muzzle. When I shot casual games of low-gun skeet, I never inserted the gun behind/above the downward traveling target. If I let that target get covered by the gun, I had low probability of passing it, getting proper lead, and lateral alignment. But I'm just a casual target shooter these days. I may have forgotten or never properly learned to shoot that game.
 
Crossing shot said:
Usually, unless it is a crossing shot, I focus on the bird's head and pull the trigger. To practice this, I put the barrel on birds' heads when they come to my bird feeder.
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Crossing, I think you answered yourself perfectly to your original question. The big difference between shooting clay birds and feathered birds is that wing shooting is normally much more instinctive. There are NO known trajectories as in sporting, skeet or trap. Birds can erupt from anywhere in any direction and there will be no time to define an insertion point. Your point of using the birds head as a place to focus on is a good one. The barrel will always go to where the eyes are looking. A long crossing shot may be one exception where you may need to see a noticeable gap to the front. Close targets under 30 yards using the birds head as a point of reference is a good way to insure you will not shoot behind.
 
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birdshooter said:
.... The big difference between shooting clay birds and feathered birds is that wing shooting is normally much more instinctive. There are NO known trajectories as in sporting, skeet or trap. Birds can erupt from anywhere in any direction and there will be no time to define an insertion point. ....
Click to expand...

👍. That's one reason I shoot clays year round. ...to Train repetitively good shooting habits. I think it takes thousands of repetitions to train out old habits.
 
My goal this year was to work on my swing thru. It was difficult. On the trap field, I knew the problem was my swing. Stopping, not following thru, lifting my head during the swing, etc Two weeks ago, I placed an elevated clay in the yard.

I premounted the gun about where a trap shot would start and looked out at nothing in particular. I yelled "pull," hard focused on the clay, started my swing, dry fired as I passed the clay and made sure I didn't raise my head and followed thru. Sometimes I pulled the trigger before the barrel blur reached the clay, sometimes past the clay, sometimes on the clay.

Today on the trap field, my swing was much improved. For the first time, I felt comfortable shooting trap. I will continue my swing thru home practice.

Looking forward to shooting some birds!
 
You guys that shoot any of the clay games to sharpen your hunting shooting should consider shooting only from the low gun position. I shoot sporting clays year round from the low gun position, only raising the gun once the target is visible, like the original sporting clays rules required. Same for any skeet or trap I'll shoot.

For a low gun position, I put the muzzle up, just below the possible line where I will see a target appear, the butt is at the waistline, not all the way down with straight arms. So the gun is something like 30* muzzle up. During the mount/swing on a crosser/outgoing low upland bird type path, the butt moves the most distance while the muzzle only has to rise a little to get on the target trajectory. I try to not raise the muzzle above the target during the mount/swing.

It really helps me with visually acquiring targets, starting my swing, mounting my gun, developing a stabilized swing, establishing proper lead, trigger control, and making all that into one fluid motion where none of those are separatable from another. If a target is a crosser, rising crosser, other combination that is a realistic upland bird flush/escape flight, my first goal after acquiring target direction visually is to start my swing simultaneously with the raising of my gun from the low position. While my eyes and brain are trying to figure out what the target is doing and where the shot should be, at what lead, my gun is still rising to my shoulder,while the muzzle is well on its way into a swing. My goal is to insert the muzzle ahead of the target path where I have already decided the lead for the shot should be. I never have a goal of inserting the muzzle behind the target, intentionally. Again, the exception most applicable is the straight away riser, where I will have the muzzle behind the target when the butt meets my shoulder, raise the muzzle to the target and fire. I'm guessing the OP was lifting his head off the gun and peeking. Lots of low gun trapshooting will help.
 
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Took the dogs out for some pre-season scouting. Five minutes out the Astro told me Champ was on point. When I was about 20 yards away, quail started getting up. I always try to practice these flushes with my imaginary shotgun.

My first impulse was to shoot. Would not have been a good idea. My stance was awkward. I did not think about moving my feet. The birds, which flushed one at a time, offered a crossing shots. They must have been within twenty yards for quite a while.

Had plenty of time to move my feet and set up for a thirty yard quartering shot. This shot would be similar to a right shot on trap number five. Swing thru shot for me.

When I got home, placed a decoy in the yard thirty yards away from my mounting spot. I turned 90 degrees from the target, turned, regained my balance, mounted behind the bird, swung thru, pressed the trigger when the barrel blur past the bird's head. All this time, my focus never left the decoy's head. The same thing I did during trap practice.

This is what I will be doing every day until bird season is over. Also will practice inserting ahead of the decoy with a crossing shot and my non-lead shots.

Glad I saw those quail. So wrapped up with trap, kinda late late in the game to start decoy training.
 
Crossing shot said:
Took the dogs out for some pre-season scouting. Five minutes out the Astro told me Champ was on point. When I was about 20 yards away, quail started getting up. I always try to practice these flushes with my imaginary shotgun.

My first impulse was to shoot. Would not have been a good idea. My stance was awkward. I did not think about moving my feet. The birds, which flushed one at a time, offered a crossing shots. They must have been within twenty yards for quite a while.

Had plenty of time to move my feet and set up for a thirty yard quartering shot. This shot would be similar to a right shot on trap number five. Swing thru shot for me.

When I got home, placed a decoy in the yard thirty yards away from my mounting spot. I turned 90 degrees from the target, turned, regained my balance, mounted behind the bird, swung thru, pressed the trigger when the barrel blur past the bird's head. All this time, my focus never left the decoy's head. The same thing I did during trap practice.

This is what I will be doing every day until bird season is over. Also will practice inserting ahead of the decoy with a crossing shot and my non-lead shots.
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Click to expand...

Now that's dedication Crossing. :thumbsup:

Maybe you should get yourself one of these... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSulovZXono
 
I use this target:

HTML: 
http://jfshooting.com/category/shooting/

Vickie Ash explains the process well:

HTML: 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BCLskPpxqs

I trust my instincts. For example, Todd Bender recommends a 42 inch lead at skeet station 3. My lead is half that. I reinforce my instinct by reproducing my sight picture in the backyard. I see my instinctive lead everyday. Most days I mount as directed on the video. After a few years, it becomes easy. I do a few reps at commercial break and hope there are a few birds coming to the feeder.

The swing thru shots have been the problem. Luckily, do not get a lot of these. Usually long shots that do not give me time to insert in front. Nice to know I can practice these at home now.
 
CS, I love that tool with the dove and ball. I don't know why every skeet range that teaches doesn't have one with a clay and ball. 15 mins with that tool and a new shooter (or old) would have a clear picture of the required lead to break a skeet bird from any station. Great stuff!:thumbsup:
 
Roaniecowpony said:
CS, I love that tool with the dove and ball. I don't know why every skeet range that teaches doesn't have one with a clay and ball. 15 mins with that tool and a new shooter (or old) would have a clear picture of the required lead to break a skeet bird from any station. Great stuff!:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

I wholeheartedly agree. As you walk around it the distance between the ball and the bird appears to change with the angle. Perfect learning tool for beginners.

crossing, the link to Youtube doesn't work for me?
 
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