Some Research on Lead Shot in Pheasant
- Thread starter John Singer
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scott county vizsla
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Here is about 10,000,000 pages on lead in humans and animals. Https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8812512/ . Urban areas have higher lead concentrations due to many reasons that are laid out. People and animals in urban areas have higher lead exposure and lead blood levels than ther rural counterparts. Adult humans and mammals are fairly tolerant of lead, completely different than birds though. Banning lead and ignoring all the other chemicals we put into our land, food and water is about as intelligent as allowing alcohol and tobacco and banning Marijuana.A very small amount of lead will kill most birds, one outlier however is the turkey vulture. I probably won't be able to find the study but it came up on the meateater podcast, researchers were testing birds to find how much lead they could tolerate and the lowly turkey vulture is pretty much immune to lead.
Here is the study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8812512/
Here is the study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8812512/
scott county vizsla
Member
Experimental lead poisoning in turkey vultures (Cathartes aura) - PubMed
Lead-induced mortality appears to have been a major factor in the decline of the California condor (Gymnogyps californianus). We orally dosed turkey vultures (Cathartes aura) with BB-sized lead shot from January 1988 through July 1988 to determine physiologic response (delta-aminolevulinic acid...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
John Singer
Well-known member
You present a very compelling strawman argument.
Chestle
Well-known member
If you grew up in a US home that was built before 1978, you may well have been exposed to lead in paint flakes or dust. If you grew up in a home with plumbing installed before 1986 and the pH of the water let the lead leach out (Flint, MI) it's not unlikely you ingested some lead.
If you grew up in a hunting home and shotgunned game was on the menu, you probably ingested lead.
I had all those experiences. We didn't have a lot of money. We rented and owned OLD houses with lead paint and lead pipes. We ate a LOT of shotgunned game. We spit out the pellets that weren't found in the cleaning but I'm sure these .07mm flakes they talk about got swallowed.
I am going to put lead flakes in shot pheasants on my list of life threatening things to worry about. Probably won't be on page 1 though.
If you grew up in a hunting home and shotgunned game was on the menu, you probably ingested lead.
I had all those experiences. We didn't have a lot of money. We rented and owned OLD houses with lead paint and lead pipes. We ate a LOT of shotgunned game. We spit out the pellets that weren't found in the cleaning but I'm sure these .07mm flakes they talk about got swallowed.
I am going to put lead flakes in shot pheasants on my list of life threatening things to worry about. Probably won't be on page 1 though.
GetTothePoint
Well-known member
Every time I miss now I'm just going to yell "don't want the exposure" so my buddy and dogs know why.
John Singer
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Lead residue in the pheasants that I shoot is something that I never worry about.
I have completely removed it from my list of life/health threats.
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John Singer
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I kind of sensed that from your previous post.
Can you persuade me that I am wrong about using nontoxic shot?
What are the advantages of lead shot?
birddude
Well-known member
My experience with steel was it turned my 12 into a 20. I had to shoot open chokes and large shot and take closer shots. Unlike tungsten which in my guns will almost turn a 20 into a 12. That's great except I'm not paying those prices. Just a few years ago, I could spend around 50 bucks for an afternoon of clay shooting with myself and two grandsons. Today 80 would not cover it. If we shot any nontoxic except the cheapest steel, 300 might not do it. I'm also not comfortable shooting steel in some of my older guns. I bet we all would shoot top notch nontoxic if not for the price. I suspect that these studies are done in areas where waterfowlers have gunned for generations. As far as lead killing a lot of avian predators, I would bet my social security check that any 10-mile stretch of highway kills 20 times more.
Chestle
Well-known member
I certainly wouldn't try to persuade you that you are wrong about non-toxic. I've never seen anyone truly persuaded to a new point of view through the use of an internet bbs thread. Most certainly, everyone should use the loads they are most comfortable and at peace with using.
I can only speak for myself as to the advantages of lead shot. For myself (IMO), I find copper plated lead #5 to be the absolutely most deadly and most cost-effective overall load for putting pheasants down DRT.
Of course, along with deadly and cost effective, I am also not at all convinced that the potential sprinkling of a few .07mm lead shavings in pheasant meat is a serious threat to my health and well being.
I am reluctant to join any panic du jour across the entire spectrum of media hyped pending disasters and death.
I survived the coming Ice Age touted by TIME and NEWSWEEK back in 1974 and 1975 respectively. I survived the global warming that was going to drown seashores as predicted by TIME back in 2006. To date I have even survived Covid without bodily modification.
I'm going to walk on the wild side a bit longer and figure that at my age it won't be a few lead shavings that transport me to the next astral plane.
YMMV.
Have a great season afield. Enjoy the dog work. Shoot the gun you like with the loads you like.
John Singer
Well-known member
Thank you. I appreciate your candor.
I have no doubt that copper plated #5 lead shot is a very effective pheasant load. I have used such for many years.
I choose not to use lead shot for game for a number of reasons. I do not expect that ingestion of lead will kill me. However, I doubt it will do my health any benefit. My personal exposure, both occupational and environmental has lead (no pun intended) to me wanting to reduce that exposure whenever possible.
I also seriously doubt that my effectiveness in the field is negatively affected when using either steel or bismuth instead of lead.
scott county vizsla
Member
Lead Ammo and Wildlife: Separating Science from Advocacy
We know lead is a toxin, and we know the list of animals that have fallen ill from lead poisoning is a long one. This is not disputed, but we must differentiate between the science of lead poisoning and statements driven by advocacy intended to influence policy changes. The issue of lead...
If one wants to refer to personal experience to discuss the use of AFFORDABLE non toxic shotgun ammo, I m a fairly accomplished wingshooter, and I hunt with a better than average dog, yet I can say without doubt that many types of nontoxic shot that I have personally used, just did not get the job done. If there is one thing that depresses me during the hunting season, it's crippling and losing birds. I'll use non-toxic if I must to stay legal, but much of it is a piss-poor substitute for efficient ammunition. I wish there waas a way to measure how many birds (waterfowl as well as upland birds) have been hit hard by steel but were not recovered by the shooter. That's the worst "crime" of all.
John Singer
Well-known member
I do not know how great a shot you are, but I can tell you this, I hunted both upland and waterfowl for many years with lead. I have seen birds bagged and birds crippled and lost with both. Lead shot is not some sort of magic death ray.
Last fall, in Iowa, during the first three days of the season, I bagged 9 pheasants with 10 shots. The first day, I shot my limit with 16 gauge #6 bismuth. The next two days, I shot steel. I use handloads of #4 steel in the right barrel and #3 steel in the left barrel. I killed 5 birds with #4 steel and one bird with #3 steel. I had missed one shot.
I continued to hunt the rest of the season in both Iowa and Minnesota and never lost a crippled pheasant.
There has been a persistent myth among some hunters that originated in the late 80s or early 90s that steel shot cripples more birds than it bags.
Now, regarding your wish, wish no more.
There exists a study that did compare lead and steel on birds and measured wounded vs bagged birds.
You can read it right here:
I do agree that lead is ballisically superior to steel and even bismuth. However, all three types of shot will cripple birds if you shoot at them too far away or through one wing.
The problem with lead shot is that it continues to kill and cripple birds and mammals long after its terminal velocity reaches zero. That is why nontoxic shot is mandated in some locations.
I know of people who feel that lead shot is so superior to nontoxic shot that they cheat when hunting WPAs and WMAs where nontoxic shot is required.
I am glad to read in your post that you do not do that.
For years, I too used lead where it was legal and steel/bismuth where it was not. I too felt that I was less effective with nontoxic shot than I was with lead. Then I stopped using lead and my loss rate has declined considerably. I definitely do not take as long shots as I used to and I do not have to be concerned that I have the wrong shot in my possession when hunting public lands.
gimruis
Well-known member
I can't get on board with this one. If its illegal, you shouldn't be doing it. I hope they get caught red-handed.
I don't hunt public land so there's no issue personally on which shot I'm using, but to purposefully disobey the law...I don't think so.
gimruis
Well-known member
That actually happened to me last year! First time I can ever remember not losing a cripple in 25 years. Almost always lose one or two during a season.