Plannerman
Active member
+1 for nickel plated B&P or Fiocchi
Some Research on Lead Shot in Pheasant
- Thread starter John Singer
- Start date
Munster927
Well-known member
You mean for lead... right?
LittleBigHorn22
Well-known member
No I meant for the steel. Lead kent is cheaper like $15-22. Not a huge jump in price in my opinion, but I am going to be testing how well they work in the field in this year so I can update then. But patterning went well with the steel.
Prices definitely differ between areas and brands, but I think a lot of guys see the $60+ bismuth and assume all non toxic is expensive. From what I read, steel can work. Just go up two sizes. I also did some ballistic analysis comparing them theoretically and it agreed.
Munster927
Well-known member
Gotcha. For a minute I thought you were referring to bismuth and was going to say Kent Bismuth is about $50 a box haha
LittleBigHorn22
Well-known member
Ha, yeah I should have specified more. In my research this year I think boss tended to be reliably the cheapest for bismuth at $32-37/box (of 20). I did buy some to try but that is certainly starting to push my comfort on ammo prices. I'll see this year if I think it's worth it or not.
John Singer
Well-known member
No. I am not kidding. Some nontoxic shotshells cost more than lead shotshells, some not so much.
Winchester Xpert shotshells in steel #7 and #6 are very effective dove and ruffed grouse/woodcock loads and are available locally for $10.86/box. Most comparable lead target and dove loads sell for $10 to $12/box.
BTW: I would never recommend those for pheasants.
Federal Steel Shotshells and even the Winchester Xperts in sizes #4, #3, and #2 are very effective for pheasants. #4 steel is very effective for prairie chickens. They happen to cost much less than premium lead shot loads.
Also, you should enjoy shooting those Boss bismuth shotshells that your son bought for you. I have found them to work well for pheasants.
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John Singer
Well-known member
Most discussions of banning lead in fishing tackle is for weights of less than one ounce.
Tungsten is used in premium jigs.
Other, less expensive alternatives such as steel, tin, bismuth, brass, and even stone are being used fishing tackle.
I have switched to nontoxic alternatives for much of my fishing. I do not find it cost prohibitive or less effective.
GetTothePoint
Well-known member
What ounce of lead weight do geese prefer? Asking for a friend because if they keep shitting all over my dock and walkway at the lake he might want to know?
A5 Sweet 16
Well-known member
They may not care if it's lead, tungsten, steel, or whatever, but I'm thinking they prefer 1-1/8 oz to 1-1/4 oz. That type of persuasion is the only thing they understand. I get a kick out of other things people try that are unsuccessful. Coyote decoys. Strings w/ flags in their landing zones. Noise makers. Fences. Fake alligators. Nothing seems to bother them except being shot.
carptom1
Well-known member
So for what it’s worth…. I have been in the home improvement business for decades. In the 90’s there became a huge push for the removal and mitigation in homes and buildings where lead paint existed, primarily where the paint was in poor shape and there was a presence of small children who would pick up the lead dust off of their toys, clothes etc. mainly they concerned themselves with the friction points of old doors and windows coupled with long term exposure. The results could be devastating ranging from developmental issues to death in extreme cases. Lead paint was outlawed in the US as of 1978. Based on all of the countless hours of mind numbing training in this I would seriously doubt exposure to a few pellets of lead in some wild game would have any effect on humans.
A5 Sweet 16
Well-known member
You'd think by now, if it were a remote possibility, there'd have been scientific/medical studies on it (lead shot, specifically) & we'd have heard about it. Hasn't happened. That said, I see the logic. Lead bad. Don't eat. So for those that choose to care, more power to them. But without scientific/medical proof, please don't make a huge deal about it & get lead shot banned across the board. That's all I ask. We've been regulated enough already.
gimruis
Well-known member
I would entertain the idea of using something other than lead (not steel, it sucks), if the cost came down. It would need to be phased in slowly over the course of a few years, not one hard date. And there would have to be some sort of buyback or trade in option on my lead fishing tackle too. Right now I have 3+ whole boxes of 7mm-08 rifle ammo for deer hunting because its impossible to find, and each box is about 50 bucks. I've also got almost 2 whole boxes of Longbeard XR for turkey hunting that is lead based. Show me other affordable options that are widely available and I'll listen.
A5 Sweet 16
Well-known member
Never going to happen unless they come up with a new miracle material. Lead is cheap. All the other stuff (excluding steel, which, as you said, sucks) isn't cheap. "Sucks" being relative, of course.
John Singer
Well-known member
I think I can understand where some of you guys are coming from.
The fact that lead is toxic and contributes to a myriad of health problems, and is found in game that has been shot with lead is not enough to make an informed decision.
You are going to wait for a study showing that humans are harmed by ingesting lead in game meat.
Several of you claim that such studies have never been done. Are you sure about that?
I understand that you want lead to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt before you convict.
Is this because nontoxic alternatives "suck"? That's a direct quote. What does that mean?
The fact that lead is toxic and contributes to a myriad of health problems, and is found in game that has been shot with lead is not enough to make an informed decision.
You are going to wait for a study showing that humans are harmed by ingesting lead in game meat.
Several of you claim that such studies have never been done. Are you sure about that?
I understand that you want lead to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt before you convict.
Is this because nontoxic alternatives "suck"? That's a direct quote. What does that mean?
gimruis
Well-known member
Not all nontoxics "suck." Just steel IMO
John Singer
Well-known member
gimruis
Well-known member
Because its not nearly as dense.
A5 Sweet 16
Well-known member
I believe studies have been done that show people who eat game killed with lead have more lead in their systems. That much stands to reason. I, personally, haven't seen results that show those people are noticeably, negatively affected. Therefore, I surmise, possibly incorrectly, that in general it's not a problem. And with as many studies as there've been that show lead is harmful to animals, I think sportsmen would be the first to be concerned about the potential in humans & the first to hear about those results if they existed. Maybe I'm completely off base. So yes, until it's proven guilty, I'll continue to shoot it while I can, as it's the most effective, most available option for the money. I shoot a lot of bismuth, but only because I have to & steel "sucks", particularly in 16 gauge options. Plus, I've got a couple guns that could be damaged by steel, & I'm not willing to take that chance. If I wanted to shoot a more modern 12 gauge, I'd likely shoot plenty of 3" steel 2's. But I don't want to.
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remy3424
Well-known member
John, since you seem pretty set on this "no-lead" thing, just to help you out and make sure you don't accidentally throw some lead in the field, you could gather up all your remaining lead shot shells, rifle cartridges and any of ther lead products and ship them to me. I will dispose of them properly!