Should CRP, CREP and other program $$ require public access?

[UGUIDE]

Cootie, I would like to see you make the numbers work on that "investment"

This is a great thread. Many good points and points of view here.

Here's what I think:

- Can CRP be better utilized? Heck yeah! In the last signup and the 2011 there is new practices to address the pollinator issue. Great stuff! Propoerly deployed I feel that cRP can be the solution to nost watershed issues and also the solution to the Dead Zone in the Gulf.

- Can you get rich putting CRP in? Doubt it. You have to own land for year before you can enroll it in CRP anyways.

- Somebody made a comment about easements. They are out there but many landowners aren't willing to "sell" those rights contained in the easement to the government. Some are though. I am in process of signing a no drain/no fill easement (permanent) with USFW. Great program I feel.

-Lastly, as long as landowners can lay drain tile and shuttle the water ,they should be keeping on their own land, over to their neighbors we are in seriously deep weeds. there's going to be a lot of water in peoples basements this spring due to water management issues related to draining soils so a crop can be grown.

 

[fsentkilr]

Usda has announced another general signup for Crp to take place this spring to replace all 3.4 million acres which will expire this year. So for now at least high grain prices aren't killing Crp. Another point I want to make is not all ground is leased with hunting rights. In this area the landowner is retaining hunting rights on most leases. The attitude on here by some is why some landowners don't allow hunting on there land. If you want pheasant hunting to go back to the way it was 20 years ago, just attach strings to Crp contracts so none is enrolled and it will happen.

 

[SDJIM]

In reply to a post by tmrichardson about options on CRP using SD as an example I say

You forgot one: Enroll in CRP and allow hunting if you want. I don't have to charge to hunt or allow public hunting if I don't want to.

 

[onpoint]

I think you said it best. Any public money must have public access plus any public money spent on habitat on private land must also have a conservation easement that gos with the land. Your better of in the long run, spending public funds on public lands and let " The rich landowners and paid hunting take care of its self" It's Called free interprize!

If you think about it, if the non land owner is bared from most private land(which they are). If they get little benefit from such programs as CRP from their tax dollar. Why would they care just what or how much game was raised on said ground? The only persons to possibly benefit from CRP would be duck hunters. That's the only game that migrates from the property.

Kind of funny, Many are against universal heath care, because they feel it's not their responsibility to pay for others heath problems but on the same note. It's OK for others to pay some of those same people rent with their tax dollars for land they can't access. It's one of those, I'm getting mine, who cares about you. Think about it, CRP comes from the same place food stamps do...USDA.

 

[Wirehairs]

If you think about it, if the non land owner is bared from most private land(which they are). If they get little benefit from such programs as CRP from their tax dollar. Why would they care just what or how much game was raised on said ground? The only persons to possibly benefit from CRP would be duck hunters. That's the only game that migrates from the property.

Kind of funny, Many are against universal heath care, because they feel it's not their responsibility to pay for others heath problems but on the same note. It's OK for others to pay some of those same people rent with their tax dollars for land they can't access. It's one of those, I'm getting mine, who cares about you. Think about it, CRP comes from the same place food stamps do...USDA.

First and Foremost let's remember when CRP was started it had nothing to do with wildlfe or hunting, it was about water quality, soil conservation and taking marginal ground out of production. We as hunters along with organizations such as DU and PF have pushed it towards a wildlife program. So to say no one benefits is not true as clean water benefits everyone. CRP as designed benefits everyone! It might not benefit in the way some people want but it does benefit.

 

[fsentkilr]

The birds don't only stay on the crp. They almost always leave the crp to feed unless it has food plots, which in Kansas isn't very often. It gives the birds a place to nest without being disturbed. They may or may not stay there then next winter. If I have to allow public access I will never enroll another acre in Crp and most landowners are just like me.

 

[onpoint]

Quote
"If I have to allow public access I will never enroll another acre in Crp and most landowners are just like me."
_______________________________

We all have strong feelings about what matters to each of us. I respect yours. I favor CRP for all wildlife, especially game species because they have meant so much to me for so many years. What is upsetting to me is, how it becomes yet another me against you thing. There's so much of this me against you going on anymore. there's very little united left in united states.

We had another discussion on another forum about gun owners sticking together. The black gun assault rifle folks say us hunters need to support all gun ownership but yet these black gun owners are no where to be found when conservation or hunting type issues arise for us hunters. We all know black guns and their misuse are on the forefront of gun issues. IMO, many of those black gun owners only need us for our vote come election time. They have little interest in if hunting survives.

If we all want hunting and CRP to survive. Just maybe some might think about telling some to put their wallet away and once in a while let that father with a son who asked to hunt, take a walk in that CRP. A little kindness goes a long way to making this sport a much better place.

 

[wesslpointer]

:10sign: Stop it you're making to much sense

If farmers do such a crappy job on crp acres wesselpointer why you want to hunt on it anyway?

Don't forget the cost of maintaining the wildlife area. yup I'm going to be rich on my 20 acres of crp I'm going to buy 160 acres of 7000 dollar ground and turn it into crp:thumbsup: Bill Gates here I come

You miss my point. Crp is a voluntary program very little $7000 ac land is in it. its the "waist" and marginal farm grown. To expect congress to incress funding for a program for 300,000. pheasant hunters in these hard times is dreaming they well vote for the 300,000,000. And the income to the country that it well bring in. Out west try $700 an ac and large insurance companies and banks have large tracks and their happy with a 4% returne. The reason you haven't seen it change YET is they have 10 yr contracts. If the states and hunting industry does not move "KNOW" to replace the lost production "pheasants" that takes place on crp land the hunters "revenue" well stop coming and its over. ITS ALL ABOUT HOW TO REPLACE "PRODUCTION" before the crp lands or greatly reduced.

 

[fsentkilr]

I don't lease any of my land and I do give permission when someone asks to hunt. That is way different than being required to let every Tom, Dick and Harry come on my land whenever they feel like it. The govt. could offer a bonus payment similar to WIHA to allow hunting and if the landowner accepts it than fine.

 

[cheesy]

I haven't read this whole thread, only the last few posts. I don't own any ground other than the 12 acres around my house. If I had a half section, or a full section that part of it could go to CRP, but as a condition I would be required to allow public access, I would continue farming it, or put cows on it, or just leave it fallow for my own benefit. If I have no control of who is on my ground what is the point in owning it?

 

[onpoint]

I haven't read this whole thread, only the last few posts. I don't own any ground other than the 12 acres around my house. If I had a half section, or a full section that part of it could go to CRP, but as a condition I would be required to allow public access, I would continue farming it, or put cows on it, or just leave it fallow for my own benefit. If I have no control of who is on my ground what is the point in owning it?

Because you would have been paid rent by the U.S. tax payer. If you rent your land to a farmer, he farms it. If you rent your land to the U.S. tax payer. They want to have access. Right now, it's just free money just like welfare and food stamps. Should we include farm subsidies well were at it? If you don't take free government money. you have the right to do whatever you want with your land. I don't take any free money..never have never will.

 

[fsentkilr]

Again hunting rights aren't part of the rental agreement. There are lots of rental agreements between privaty parties that don't include hunting rights. Most of it around here the landowners are retaining hunting rights. Some of the attitudes on here make me want to stop allowing hunting on all of my ground.

 

[couger71]

Because you would have been paid rent by the U.S. tax payer. If you rent your land to a farmer, he farms it. If you rent your land to the U.S. tax payer. They want to have access. Right now, it's just free money just like welfare and food stamps. Should we include farm subsidies well were at it? If you don't take free government money. you have the right to do whatever you want with your land. I don't take any free money..never have never will.

Did you cash your stimulus check?

I did.

 

[Wirehairs]

The CRP program has never been and will never be about public access! I understand that may make some people mad or dissapointed. The CRP program is about, and I quote right from http://www.apfo.usda.gov/FSA/webapp?area=home&subject=copr&topic=crp

Benefits



CRP protects millions of acres of American topsoil from erosion and is designed to safeguard the Nation's natural resources. By reducing water runoff and sedimentation, CRP protects groundwater and helps improve the condition of lakes, rivers, ponds, and streams. Acreage enrolled in the CRP is planted to resource-conserving vegetative covers, making the program a major contributor to increased wildlife populations in many parts of the country.

That is what the American Taxpayer is getting for their rent money. As a hunter of course it would be great to have access but it isn't going to happen. Please also remember all the evironmentalists in this country and the powerful lobby they have. CRP is a favorite for them. Don't think for one second hunters are the only taxpayers that care about CRP. I love CRP for wildlife but I also know that wildlife is just a secondary benefit to what the program is really for.

 

[onpoint]

Again hunting rights aren't part of the rental agreement. There are lots of rental agreements between privaty parties that don't include hunting rights. Most of it around here the landowners are retaining hunting rights. Some of the attitudes on here make me want to stop allowing hunting on all of my ground.

I agree hunting rights are not included but to many they think they should be. I wouldn't want others roaming my land either but then again. I don't pursue any of the government farm programs. I feel I would just be adding to those who have their hand in the basket of free money. I have listen to a few complain about the rising deficit in this country. Then head to the mail box to get their check from the government. I have seen folks complain about a person on welfare buying T-bones with food stamps. I have also listen to what people have bought with their CRP check...

Here's one for ya. A person I know found out that government has a program that pays a rancher to clear cedar off his property. He said he can get $30,000 a year to clear something like 10 acres of these cedars. He plans to enroll in the program and he's going to buy a new skid loader and a grinder attachment for it. He said he can enroll next year too and get another $30,000 and the government is going to pay for his new equipment and he will make a bunch of cash too. He wants the cedar controlled anyways but is very willing to let the government buy him a new skid loader besides put cash in his pocket for doing what he would have had to do anyways. There's a endless list of these free money programs. You just need to know someone that can keep you up to speed on these free money grabs.

 

[fsentkilr]

Onpoint if its such easy money it sounds to me like you are missing the boat. Buy some land enroll it in govt. programs and get rich. I can tell you that my crp has cost me lots of money the last 5 years because with high grain prices I would have made 3 times as much per acre a year farming it. I put it in because its in areas that I though would be better suited to it. (along creeks, along waterways, field edges ect) If the government quits funding crp when the contracts expire some of it will be farmed again but most of it won't. I can guarantee that if you come knocking on my door you won't be hunting on it regardless.

 

[onpoint]

The CRP program has never been and will never be about public access! I understand that may make some people mad or dissapointed. The CRP program is about, and I quote right from http://www.apfo.usda.gov/FSA/webapp?area=home&subject=copr&topic=crp

Benefits



CRP protects millions of acres of American topsoil from erosion and is designed to safeguard the Nation's natural resources. By reducing water runoff and sedimentation, CRP protects groundwater and helps improve the condition of lakes, rivers, ponds, and streams. Acreage enrolled in the CRP is planted to resource-conserving vegetative covers, making the program a major contributor to increased wildlife populations in many parts of the country.

That is what the American Taxpayer is getting for their rent money. As a hunter of course it would be great to have access but it isn't going to happen. Please also remember all the evironmentalists in this country and the powerful lobby they have. CRP is a favorite for them. Don't think for one second hunters are the only taxpayers that care about CRP. I love CRP for wildlife but I also know that wildlife is just a secondary benefit to what the program is really for.

This is kind of the same as snow goose hunters who have a pickup box full of geese. Saying they were out doing it to save the tundra...I doubt saving the tundra ever entered their minds. They were there for the liberal limits, relaxed regs, along with the fun. They only say that to justify the heaping pile of geese that some view as excess.

IMO, very few who enroll their land in CRP, do it for ground water quality or think about lakes, rivers or streams. If they weren't paid. They would plow it, ditch it, drain it, pasture it, Etc. Many have said that fact in their posts, should they have to give public access. That right there says, most are in it for the money plain and simple. Oh there are some that care about the environment but the majority are in it for profit..end of story.

 

[onpoint]

Onpoint if its such easy money it sounds to me like you are missing the boat. Buy some land enroll it in govt. programs and get rich. I can tell you that my crp has cost me lots of money the last 5 years because with high grain prices I would have made 3 times as much per acre a year farming it. I put it in because its in areas that I though would be better suited to it. (along creeks, along waterways, field edges ect) If the government quits funding crp when the contracts expire some of it will be farmed again but most of it won't. I can guarantee that if you come knocking on my door you won't be hunting on it regardless.

Easy big fella, question for you. If you would leave most of it in high grass habitat anyways. What was the reason for enrolling it in CRP?

 

[fsentkilr]

Crp was the incentive to put it in but after seeing the benefits I won't take most of it out. Something else for you. Not only hunters tax dollars are used to fund CRP. I would wager there are more anti-hunters or people who don't care if hunting is allowed or not than hunters. So should an anti-hunter subsidize you a place to hunt? The other benefits of crp benefit all equally.

 

[onpoint]

If you are truly a person who cares for the habitat and isn't in it for the cash. That will leave much of it in habitat without being paid to do so. I commend you. Way too many corp operation these days that care about one thing and one thing only..$$$$$$$$$$$.

All in all, CRP is doomed. I read the other day that the world population is going to rise by a billion in the next decade. It said we will not be able to produce enough food to feed the world then. Every inch of ground will have to be under production.