SD trip 2023

benelli-banger said:
Those CREP acres had to be seeded by 11/1…I was at a wedding in Sept in Huron and had a long chat with the NRCS agent who handled the CREP transactions for him. It’ll be a good thing, despite the exponential increase in hunter traffic. I’ve shot some birds on that ground this year…and on adjacent private land…that’ll be the bonus over the next decade…I’ve got access to private land that abuts several of those CREP parcels. 3120 acres of solid habitat is pretty staggering….🍻🍻
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Do you live close by those CREP parcels?
 
benelli-banger said:
Those CREP acres had to be seeded by 11/1…I was at a wedding in Sept in Huron and had a long chat with the NRCS agent who handled the CREP transactions for him. It’ll be a good thing, despite the exponential increase in hunter traffic. I’ve shot some birds on that ground this year…and on adjacent private land…that’ll be the bonus over the next decade…I’ve got access to private land that abuts several of those CREP parcels. 3120 acres of solid habitat is pretty staggering….🍻🍻
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Me and Goose could knock that 3120 out in an afternoon!!
 
benelli-banger said:
I happened to stop into a C store/coffee shop on about day 2 of my hunt 11/7-11/15 and ran into 3 farmer/ranchers who also charge early season, and they offered land…2 that we never got to! To thank them just for the offer I smoked pork shoulder…and spread it around…the 32lbs cost me under a $100 to smoke…all in…and about 8 people/families received several lbs each. For me, the relationships are very fun. I came back for a grad party in May, and a wedding in September…pretty typical for most years over the past 15 or so, throwing a funeral in there about every 18 months as well. I wouldn’t pay $200-300/day to hunt…or whatever the going rate is…UGUIDE is closer to $400+/day, fwiw. I know so many good public spots, there‘d be no point. And ditches. I‘m really in it for the steps at this point, not quick limits.
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I think that's a noble accurrment. I don't think pulling out a wallet is.
 
Goosemaster said:
I think that's a noble accurrment. I don't think pulling out a wallet is.
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Do what works for you….no issue with what others do, that’s their deal, I understand there’s different approaches. If someone makes their living by selling drugs to kids, or other despicable things like that, you’ll get a reaction out of me. Paying to hunt? Go for it. You were evidently born into a successful Montana family…dad was a judge? I lucked out as well…there was time and $ to be introduced to hunting and fishing by my dad..feel very fortunate. Count your blessings and understand not everyone shares your views or the opportunities you evidently have. If other hunters are legal, and helping local landowners by paying to hunt, who cares? Do you work? If so, what do you do? Just curious. Married? Kids? Ever been away from Montana for any length of time? Good luck out there…🍻
 
benelli-banger said:
Do what works for you….no issue with what others do, that’s their deal, I understand there’s different approaches. If someone makes their living by selling drugs to kids, or other despicable things like that, you’ll get a reaction out of me. Paying to hunt? Go for it. You were evidently born into a successful Montana family…dad was a judge? I lucked out as well…there was time and $ to be introduced to hunting and fishing by my dad..feel very fortunate. Count your blessings and understand not everyone shares your views or the opportunities you evidently have. If other hunters are legal, and helping local landowners by paying to hunt, who cares? Do you work? If so, what do you do? Just curious. Married? Kids? Ever been away from Montana for any length of time? Good luck out there…🍻
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I'm retired, single, 4th generation montana native.Not an indian.My family came to Montana in 1863.
 
Goosemaster said:
Nobody is getting my point.My point is,pay hunting is not good for the future of hunting. A lot of people can't afford to pay to hunt.
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Everybody gets your point...not hard to fathom. We just don’t care that much…or we understand that others can see the world differently. Go picket the farms and ranches that charge to hunt…or learn about their circumstances. I’m glad they’ve got habitat, and a financial incentive to keep it habitat…otherwise they might just plow it all and farm it. You know what’s a threat to the future of hunting? Another billion humans. Or two billion. All who need to be fed. That’s what we’re up against. I bought land for $600/acre 23 years ago in SD. Today similar land goes for $5000, +/-. Hard to leave any of it idle if you’re paying that kind of $…not to mention all the other input costs like seed, fertilizer, fuel, machinery, crop insurance, interest on debt, real estate taxes, mortgage payments, health insurance premiums, income taxes, FICA taxes, retirement plan contributions, saving for kids’ college tuition, groceries, house repairs, daily drivers, etc. Crop prices jump all over the place. Not a business I could handle. I don’t begrudge them for wanting compensation for accessing their habitat. 75 years ago a family could make it on a 1/4 section. Today it requires 10x that, or more. It’s getting harder, not easier. That’s my take on the situation. Those who are 3rd, 4th, 5th generation farmers/ranchers have a huge advantage, however…that’s the only way a person can be a farmer or rancher…or marry someone who is in that category. Barking at guys who pay to hunt won’t help…there are things you can do to address the situation constructively.
 
benelli-banger said:
Everybody gets your point...not hard to fathom. We just don’t care that much…or we understand that others can see the world differently. Go picket the farms and ranches that charge to hunt…or learn about their circumstances. I’m glad they’ve got habitat, and a financial incentive to keep it habitat…otherwise they might just plow it all and farm it. You know what’s a threat to the future of hunting? Another billion humans. Or two billion. All who need to be fed. That’s what we’re up against. I bought land for $600/acre 23 years ago in SD. Today similar land goes for $5000, +/-. Hard to leave any of it idle if you’re paying that kind of $…not to mention all the other input costs like seed, fertilizer, fuel, machinery, crop insurance, interest on debt, real estate taxes, mortgage payments, health insurance premiums, income taxes, FICA taxes, retirement plan contributions, saving for kids’ college tuition, groceries, house repairs, daily drivers, etc. Crop prices jump all over the place. Not a business I could handle. I don’t begrudge them for wanting compensation for accessing their habitat. 75 years ago a family could make it on a 1/4 section. Today it requires 10x that, or more. It’s getting harder, not easier. That’s my take on the situation. Those who are 3rd, 4th, 5th generation farmers/ranchers have a huge advantage, however…that’s the only way a person can be a farmer or rancher…or marry someone who is in that category. Barking at guys who pay to hunt won’t help…there are things you can do to address the situation constructively.
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Post of the year !!!
 
benelli-banger said:
Everybody gets your point...not hard to fathom. We just don’t care that much…or we understand that others can see the world differently. Go picket the farms and ranches that charge to hunt…or learn about their circumstances. I’m glad they’ve got habitat, and a financial incentive to keep it habitat…otherwise they might just plow it all and farm it. You know what’s a threat to the future of hunting? Another billion humans. Or two billion. All who need to be fed. That’s what we’re up against. I bought land for $600/acre 23 years ago in SD. Today similar land goes for $5000, +/-. Hard to leave any of it idle if you’re paying that kind of $…not to mention all the other input costs like seed, fertilizer, fuel, machinery, crop insurance, interest on debt, real estate taxes, mortgage payments, health insurance premiums, income taxes, FICA taxes, retirement plan contributions, saving for kids’ college tuition, groceries, house repairs, daily drivers, etc. Crop prices jump all over the place. Not a business I could handle. I don’t begrudge them for wanting compensation for accessing their habitat. 75 years ago a family could make it on a 1/4 section. Today it requires 10x that, or more. It’s getting harder, not easier. That’s my take on the situation. Those who are 3rd, 4th, 5th generation farmers/ranchers have a huge advantage, however…that’s the only way a person can be a farmer or rancher…or marry someone who is in that category. Barking at guys who pay to hunt won’t help…there are things you can do to address the situation constructively.
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That is an incredible explanation IMO. As I mentioned earlier, and BB addresses, anything that a pay to hunt landowner does to improve habitat and bird numbers benefits me and all other hunters in some way or form. If it produces more birds it is a positive.

After reading this I really think what Goose is against is change. I understand that. When I was growing up we could deer hunt almost any where we wanted. As things changed I hated it. Then I moved away and now when I go back it is crazy to see houses where we used to hunt. More change that I don’t really like but I can’t do a damn thing about it.

I work in ag and what BB mentioned about land prices is a reality and it is coming to a state near you. Land here is 14k an acre. IA and parts of MN 20k plus. I bought land in SD in early 2021 for $1400 an acre(not hi quality tillable) 60 miles south of our land, where we do a lot of hunting and have a lot of contacts, there have been 3 sales in the last 4 weeks that brought 7200, 6200 and just this week 480 acres sold in 3 quarters and they brought 7400, 9200 and 9400 an acre each. Should be noted 3 other pieces in that same sale brough 3300 to 4100 about 30 miles away. Inflation and high interest rates doesn’t appear to have slowed down the demand for land. I can remember in mid 2021 when the first land passed the 4000 an acre in that area and the local farmers all ranted about how crazy that was. Not just over two years later it has doubled from that. As BB mentioned with high land and input costs the more pressure there is to get more crop($$$) out of each field to help cover costs and try to scratch a profit. These last two years have been pretty good profits for farmers in SD with 2023 being the better of the two from those I interact with. They all know a severe drought is coming again at some point, just the reality of farming in that part of the country. When that happens it can be a double whammy on the birds. Parts of Fields that usually can’t get farmed do and the pressure to get every dollar possible out of the land is higher. Also leads to a loss of cover when that happens so maybe a triple whammy?? I say all this to make the point that change is coming and no matter how much we bitch and call people names that make a choice to do things differently then we do it is not gonna change the reality.

Great post BB!!!
 
fwiw, I make changes to my investment accounts very periodically, and it’s always stressful attempting to discern if the timing is right, both regarding what I‘m selling, and also, what I’m buying. Farmers are forced to make major decisions all the time…buying seed, fertilizer, propane, machinery, fuel…and then the BIG decisions…selling their crops…or storing their crops, and at what price to store them…and buying/renting Iand…I kind of watch crop prices…they make the stock market look stable and boring! And farmers don’t go into offices and have coworkers to commiserate with or strategize with…maybe a spouse, a father, a brother or son…but it’s a very solitary business, and decisions are scrutinized and criticized by others in the area…you’ve got to be cordial to everyone, but to a great extent, they’re your competition…many would rent land away from you in a heartbeat if the opportunity arose…seen it happen a lot. Or slide in and buy ground that you may have an interest or a history with. Tough job. I couldn’t do it. Recently one of my close farmer friends wanted investment advice…after 15 minutes, I said I couldn’t really give him advice, there were SO MANY contingency’s that he had to plan for…stuff that COULD happen that he might need the $ for! love being out in farm country…gravel roads…nothing that forces me to think about things that I don’t want to think about! I detest stress…daily choices are to steer clear of it…more time in my beloved hunting country! ☀️
 
Great posts guys! I could not handle the stress of farming either - a crop farmer can do everything perfect, and then becomes 100% reliant on mother nature (irrigation being the exception - a small % of total)- and look what's happened to our weather in just the past 5 years! Same with beef, hogs, milk, etc - market price swings hugely impacting profitability, or lack thereof. Cattle ranchers forced to sell animals because lack of rain left them short of hay. Several friends in Alberta had to use crop insurance this year, due to the lack of rain. I'm quite certain they had a warmer summer & fall than we did in N Illinois, very abnormal. Then the decision on what % crop insurance to buy, along with those associated costs....There was a time when they could gamble and not take out crop insurance.....not any more....and you'd better be a damn good mechanic - the hats they wear are incredible! a few bad decisions can take them out.
Not many jobs carry the stress these folks have to deal with.
One of my dear friends (passed away now 3 years) used to say - when he started farming input costs were 30% and harvest was 70%; now it's reversed - never forgot this discussion at his kitchen table - Just more pressure for them to deal with. God bless them!
As a side note, the continuous technological advances made in farming is incredible!
 
Matt D said:
... just this week 480 acres sold in 3 quarters and they brought 7400, 9200 and 9400 an acre each...
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And the county will notice and record that and taxes on land will go up due to the higher valuation.

The farmers and ranchers get slammed from every which way.

But hey...yanno....a six of Pabst, right?
 
Goosemaster said:
Nobody is getting my point.My point is,pay hunting is not good for the future of hunting. A lot of people can't afford to pay to hunt.
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How could we possibly not get your point?? BTW you’re wrong. SD is good partially because of the pay hunting. Where do you think all those birds are wintering, roosting or eating? SD realizes what a cash cow hunting is for the local economy. If you take all of that away and farmers decide to moonscape farm like they do in Kansas, it will tank quick. Just because you don’t like it or won’t do it doesn’t make it wrong for someone else. BTW my dog loves her kennel
 
Thank heaven for the "IGNORE" feature on this forum! They made it just to ignore idiots. I don't know what has been posted...and I don't care!

Matt, good to see you and DG again. Good hunting :)
 
BrdHntr said:
Great posts guys! I could not handle the stress of farming either - a crop farmer can do everything perfect, and then becomes 100% reliant on mother nature (irrigation being the exception - a small % of total)- and look what's happened to our weather in just the past 5 years! Same with beef, hogs, milk, etc - market price swings hugely impacting profitability, or lack thereof. Cattle ranchers forced to sell animals because lack of rain left them short of hay. Several friends in Alberta had to use crop insurance this year, due to the lack of rain. I'm quite certain they had a warmer summer & fall than we did in N Illinois, very abnormal. Then the decision on what % crop insurance to buy, along with those associated costs....There was a time when they could gamble and not take out crop insurance.....not any more....and you'd better be a damn good mechanic - the hats they wear are incredible! a few bad decisions can take them out.
Not many jobs carry the stress these folks have to deal with.
One of my dear friends (passed away now 3 years) used to say - when he started farming input costs were 30% and harvest was 70%; now it's reversed - never forgot this discussion at his kitchen table - Just more pressure for them to deal with. God bless them!
As a side note, the continuous technological advances made in farming is incredible!
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I know 2 guys that farm thousands of acres. They get by ok.They don't charge money.I do give them a ham,or a box of lead bb's,or some Hamms beer.
 
Basically this thread turned from Matt's report into the all too familiar "good old days of easy door knocking" vs. modern times SD and paying a trespass fee in order to hunt quality private land. This discussion will continue on this site forever, as it is a perennial issue. I can find agreement with both sides. It sure would be nice to knock on a door, have a friendly chat, and get the go-head on hunting a private farm. On the other hand if the guy asks a reasonable fee, and it looks like there's a lot to hunt, I would for sure consider throwing some dough into his hat. If I can classify a third option, which is definitely a step down in my book, it's a real-life pheasant hunting lodge! This is the all-inclusive type place. Modern lodging, manicured foodplots, your limit is three birds but if you want to keep killing you can, it's just x amount of $ per bird. We drove by a place like this last fall in SD, and at sunset there was literally a guy herding a large group of birds away from the road to protect them from road-hunting. And he was like 20 feet from them with his arms stretched wide guiding them like sheep. Those birds were about as un-wild as they come. I think a lot of out of towners fly or make a long drive to hunt these places. Then they tell everyone back home about South Dakota and the unbelievable pheasant hunting. The only good thing I see about these joints are some old-timers who are too crippled up to hunt wild birds in wild places can get out for a few final trips. I do usually go to a game farm or two in MN every year. When I do, I never tell people I went hunting. I simply say, "we went to the game farm." As an old buddy who has now passed on would say about shooting pen raised birds, "it's a canned hunt." It is indeed.
 
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