Scaled Quail comment, questions

C

cokid

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Don't see much discussion of "cotton-tops" on here, but here goes anyway.

Where I pheasant hunt I run into a fair number of quail, both bobs and scaleys in about equal number. This weekend I stumbled into a large covey of scaleys, around 20 birds. First interesting item is they acted much more like bobs than scaled quail - held tight, flushed tight, and chasing down singles was much like hunting bobs as well, with virtually no running at all. I went 4 for 4 on them before leaving them alone.

And that is my main question - is the minimum/safe number of birds in a scaley covey the same as for bobs (roughly 8-10)? They seem a bit more resilient than bobs to me, so I wonder if a smaller covey is still viable for them. Not saying I wanted to annihilate that covey, but just wondering if I could have taken a couple more.

And then the next day (Sunday), I was driving past an old deciduous shelter-belt (locust I think) and saw a good-sized covey roosting in one of the trees. I assumed they were bobs, but did a double-take when I realized they were cottontops again! Definitely out of character being where they were. I've seen them "roost" in cholla before, but not in trees! Forgot my camera on this trip or I'd taken a pic.

So - any blue/scaled/cotton-top love or species-specific knowledge out there? Back 10-20 years I used to hunt them as primary quarry, but they were so hard to locate and/or run down I gave it up - went through too much boot leather that way! Seems I see more of them "by accident" pheasant hunting than I ever did going after them on purpose.
 
Bobwhite are one of, if not the most studied birds in the world. Scaled quail, not so much. I think, from inference, that the fact they are similarly built and live in the same habitat in overlapping territories, that they probably require similar thermal protection as do bobwhite. Their size is similar, their plumage is similar, and their habitat is similar so their physics should also be similar. I couldn't find anything specific after googling scaled quail thermodynamics. Give it a try and you'll find more information about the species.
 
Interesting questions, I'd like to know more myself. I guess my question would be how harsh are winters in the area? I'd love to get into an area with that kind of overlap.
 
I've never tried hunting Scalies in Colorado but have hunted them in Arizona a good amount and I would say it is rare to see a whole covey in the trees. I've seen a sentry on a fence post or on a branch while the rest of the covey is on the ground. I also don't know what a normal covey size is for scalies in Colorado but twenty birds would be on the smaller side of a covey in my experience.:cheers:
 
PD, that's an interesting point about their physical similarities - especially about their plumage. If anything, blues seem to have a bit less insulation than bobwhite; they remind me a bit of doves when dressing them, there's so little "heft" to the feathers. So it probably is wise to leave at least 10-12 in the covey. I did read a page somewhere that said their typical covey size is 30-40! I have only seen a few in the 30 range, and never one I think would go 40. I wonder if that varies by region?

QH, this is a fairly unique area, at least for CO - the extreme SE corner. The pheasant and bobwhite range is pretty small down there, but scaleys are spread all over that corner of the state. I've been hunting there for years and it's generally been quite good to me, but the droughts of the early 2000's as well as 2011-13 were truly brutal in that area. There was quite a bit of talk about the "return of the dustbowl", since that's pretty close to where the original one started in the 30's. Luckily 2014 provided a decent reprieve - we'll have to see if it lasts. I have actually been surprised how well both quail and phez rebounded in just one year. The one trip I made down there last season I didn't see a single pheasant nor any sign at all - very depressing. Climate-wise, the area averages somewhat warmer than most of CO, but can easily get to sub-zero temps and blizzard conditions any given winter. Which reminds me, I think it was a late 90's Spring storm that had drifts 20' high in the county just north of there. They had national guard helicopters out dropping hay to stranded cattle! I went out a week or two after the storm just to sight-see, and seeing drifts at least half-way up telephone poles was really amazing.

Frangler - just saw your response. I spent a couple years recently in AZ, and went after the Gambel's quite a bit, but between being very busy and being a quail 'novice', never tried to find the scalies or Mearns. Your comment on covey size makes me think maybe the CO coveys are indeed smaller. I also lived for a decade in Huerfano County, which is the western edge of their range here, and saw lots of coveys just driving around, so while anecdotal, I'd say I had a pretty wide sampling. I also see from Wikipedia that there are 3 sub-species in the US - perhaps that might have something to do with it as well.

Still would like to know what a "safe" minimum size is, should anyone find a semi-definitive answer, but for now I think I'll go with 12!
 
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I did a bit more research (i.e., "googling":)) on scaled quail covey size and found pretty dramatic differences from various studies, ranging from 13.4 to 65.2(!) - the latter based only on 9 coveys and almost certainly an outlier in the studies. The largest sample size I came across was 500 coveys, and that had an average of 15 in a covey. These studies were from TX, AZ, OK and NM - none from CO that I found - and it appeared that covey size did indeed vary by state/location.
 
I have hunted the Cimarron National Grasslands in extreme southwest Kansas a few times over the years, but has probably been at least 20 years since the last time. Only got in to one covey of scalies and it was where we were expecting bobs. Lots of things to poke a dog out there. Plenty of sandburs in the river channel and lots of prickly pear in the hills.

That area is about 105,000 acres. There are about 95 guzzlers there. One guy that used to hunt the area said they would have a guy in the back of the pickup watching the guzzlers to see if any scaled quail ran out. If they did, the group would get out and try to get ahead of them.

I do remember my sons' and my first trip there and walking the river channel among the large cottonwoods and salt cedar when strolling across ahead of us was the largest bull elk I have ever seen.

We enjoyed hunting the Cimarron even though it never put much in our game bag. My mind says "I would like to hunt it again", but my worn out body says, "probably not".
 
esetter said:
Can you please define Guzzler? Im from the east! Lol
Click to expand...

A guzzler is a water catchment that catches rain water and stores it underground. They have spots for wildlife to access the water. They're very important to wildlife in arid areas.
 
There are many different designs, some use metal roof sheeting on frames to catch rain and some use concrete like seen below. Nevada has an awesome guzzler program but it takes a lot of volunteers to keep them in working condition. The common guzzler found in the Mojave desert.




Life in the desert!


 
Here is a picture of a western Kansas guzzler.

WildlifeWater_Photo.jpg


That area of Kansas has an average annual rainfall of about 18 inches.

The grasslands are grazed in the summer by the grazing association. As I recall most if not all of the guzzlers are in a fenced in area that also has a windmill and tank for the cattle where the gate to the enclosure can be opened or closed. These locations provide some water and a little different vegetation than the rest of the sagebrush so it would concentrate the birds somewhat.

Wish I was more current with my information about the area. Maybe someone with current info will chime in.
 
Thanks for the pic Maynard. I think the rule of thumb is the less annual rainfall the more surface area to catch rain fall. Some areas out here are lucky to get 10-12" so bigger surface areas catch the precious water. Some of these guzzlers sustain not only small birds and mammals through the harsh summer but also desert mule deer, big horn sheep, bears, and even some small elk herds!
 
I've run into scalies a few times when I lived in Garden City in that area close to the river.

Last and only time I hunted the Cimarron in SW KS was in 2010 - my buddy and I tried for a day and a half to find scaled quail and were successful once. Found one nice sized covey and like your experience, they held tight and we flushed them 3 or 4 times taking 4 birds. Have one of them I'm looking at mounted in my office. Been wanting to go back but once the weather turned for the worse and after the fire in 2011 (I think) I've been hard pressed to make the 5-6 hr drive from home.

The Garden City Birds never gave me a chance -- my buddy had a friend that had some feed lot ground about 5-10 miles west of where I could hunt near the river and they'd get into bigger covies of them there.

Anyways, Garden has a pretty harsh climate as Maynard alluded to - so good question on covey size -- I'm no expert but Troy (PrairieDrifter) sounds like he has a reasonable answer.
 
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