BritChaser
Well-known member
On opening weekend I saw an Irish Setter, the first I had seen of this breed in the field hunting. It was stylish and active.
Saw an Irish Setter Afield
- Thread starter BritChaser
- Start date
a lot of those are red setter, and or irish setters crossed with english setters to infuse size, ( smaller), and working ability, one time by agreement with the breed registry, in an attempt to get the dogs back into the field. There are still lines of Irish setters who are serious hunters, as well, and in either case, a finer looking field dog does not exist.
Until they go through a sticker patch
I had one when i was growing up, beautiful dog, took him hunting and ended up cutting alot of his locks to get the burrs out!
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That's really true? The breed registry (assuming AKC?) allows outbreeding occasionally to help improve the lines? Seems a little sketchy to me...
While it may sound "sketchy", to you, which I assume means you don't believe it. Yes it's true, the " Red Setter", will have some english setter blood somewhere in it's pedigree. AKC in this case, was not the registry, FDSB was, but now AKC and FBSB recognize and honor each others registry. european and British have their own rules, and all of the above mostly follow the breed club's decision on issues such as this. ( i.e. the labrador club of american, says labs don't point, and does not acknowledge the existence of pointing Labs). Consequently, many import Irish setters have a remote outcross as well. Look up Irish red and white setters. Notice the big white patch on the chest of some Irish setters? Not such a stretch, where do you think they all came from in the first place? Besides the gene pool of supposed pure strain Irish setters with field capability were so narrow as to make restoration of the field dogs virtually impossible, breeders decided that nature needed a little push in the right direction. But by all means don't take my word for it, do some research yourself. Report back on the "sketchy" details. Hint, the irishman not the only breed, to recieve help. The spinone comes to mind as a recent example. There are more, one pretty close to home for you.
Kal
New member
My dog is 100% purebred Irish Setter 100% purebred Golden Retriever hybrid. The setter side of him is bred to retain its 18th century "badge" of white on its chest and around the toes which came through on Toby. It was believed back in the 18th century that a full coat of red meant better field skills so most breeders started trying to ween out any white "imperfections" thus giving us what we see today in the Red Setter. True Irish Setters should ALWAYS have some white on them.
Fenway
Member
Sorry, wasn't trying to step on toes. I was more saying that it sounded a little sketchy for AKC to be doing those things, especially since I know there are still some lines of Irish Setters that do well in the field. Thanks for the info though... I always want to be learning.
Cockerfan, No problem, check out the Red Setter site on line read history of the breed in America, especially beginning in around 1950. Ant dog with bird sense is outcrossed, due to disputes within the breed registry parent club, some are FDSB, some are FDSB and AKC. Didn't decide all this till mid 70's. Still a contentious issue today, between the show people and the field people. Did you know that originally all spaniels came from the same litters? They were seperated and registered according to size, and purpose, so you could literally have registered cockers, springers, and field spaniels from the same litter based on size, and inclination! Field spaniel became so degraded as a field dog that some years ago outcrossing to selected springers and cockers was authorized to refix the breed standard. Not saying good or bad, but an excellent example of the tinkering nature of man!
cheesy
Well-known member
Dad always had Irish Setter's when him and his brothers were growing up and there were still huntable populations of bobwhites around here. I've heard the all the stories of them, going on point while retrieving birds only to walk in and bust another covey. He switched off to GSP's partly because of the coat maintenance, partly because the dogs were all being bred as show dogs.
bobeyerite
New member
Thank You, Old,That was very informative. I didn't know about pointing labs, I just don't follow those things, being a Brittany man. My uncle always hunted Irish Setters. His were the true ones for he had them back in the 50's and 60's. They were good hunting dogs. Thanks again.........Bob
Zeb, If you get a chance read the Red Setter site, But the short answer is that because of the ongoing fight between the people who did the outcross to english setters, and the people who didn't like it. The registration is again split. Remember they all agreed to do this in 1950. Then presumably the show faction persuaded AKC to stopregistering dogs of outcross parentage in the mid 70's. The dogs who were originally outcrossed and registered with AKC, remained in the registry and are the source of any field ability still in the AKC lines. Their litter mates, who were slow to register in AKC, are FDSB registered, and often times are called red setters, to distinguish themselves. It's a stupid mess.
Fenway
Member
Berg Brothers used to have a bunch of Red Setters, they don't
really look close to a show Setter.
onpoint
Active member
Years ago, my dad and uncle went Pheasant hunting together. My uncle had just got a Irish Setter from a guy and was so looking forward to taking him hunting. They got to a cut corn field they wanted to walk. They opened the doors got out with the dog. Then walked around, open the trunk to get their guns out. They looked up and the dog was all the way on the other end of the 80 acres already, with Pheasants flushing all along the way. There wasn't a rooster left in the field by the time my uncle got him back. My dad looked at my uncle and said. If that was my dog..he would stay right here in the field..like forever...LOL
My dad tells this story all the time at family get together s on the holidays. Heard it a 1000 times and we still all laugh about it.
My dad tells this story all the time at family get together s on the holidays. Heard it a 1000 times and we still all laugh about it.
Dakotazeb
Well-known member
This is true of some other breeds also. Springers are one that come to mind. The show dogs tend to be larger and have longer hair.
Fenway
Member
Sounds like that Chevy Chase movie, he gets his Irish Setter home lets him out of the car and thats the last he sees it.
onpoint
Active member
jeffstally
Member
I bought a red setter pup from Celtic Farms this summer. His pups are AKC and FDSB registerable. So far, I really love the dog. He is now 7 months old.