Ranging Too Close!

pnsballard

pnsballard

New member
How do I get my dog to range farther? Anyone have experience or a drill to get them to do it in practice? My Vizsla (I know they range close anyway) is only ranging out from 20ft-20yds. He checks back often and he's at 20ft more often than 20yds. This is his first full season really at 24mos. I couldn't get out like I wanted to last year so I'm a little behind. When he gets on a scent he will track it out farther and I've had him out to about 50yds, maybe a little more but that is rare. I think we are running off more birds or missing them because he is too close to me. Anyone have any tips/tricks/advice? I'd like to be able to tell him to hunt 'em up and he goes out 30-50yds right away. Instead he does figure 8s almost right ni front of me. Does this improve over time/experience as he gains confidence and gets over more birds? I haven't had the opportunity to get him over pigeons but twice. Just have not had the bird source and opportunity.
 
There are a few things that will help, but only so much.

First off the more you get him out the more likely his confidence will go up along with his range.

Also, try not to talk to him or give him direction. Especially when he is coming to check in. Try to avoid eye contact as well when he is checking in. Let him learn on his own.

Run him some in open country, where he can see you at a longer distance.

If you are planting birds for him. Plant them farther and farther out. Make him get away from you to find birds.

His range will also tend to get longer the older and more experience in the field he is.

Keeping quite will help, is one that helped me, and him getting older and more experience.

Hope that helps, good luck, have fun, and let him learn. It will not happen over night.
 
Training?, Then let him watch you plant your birds. Put him high on something, tail gate in a crate etc. Car roof if you have to. Let him see the birds as you put them down, and cut him loose. Let him do this and put him away with no other crap, done. That will get him punching down field for you.:thumbsup:
 
FCSpringer said:
Training?, Then let him watch you plant your birds. Put him high on something, tail gate in a crate etc. Car roof if you have to. Let him see the birds as you put them down, and cut him loose. Let him do this and put him away with no other crap, done. That will get him punching down field for you.:thumbsup:
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Great inputs. Thanks! Have you used the "plant/put him up high" technique before? Seems like it may reinforce it as well if you do that first and let him "cheat" with 3-4 birds then go again the next day and don't let him watch. Thoughts?
 
If you think it's a lack of confidence or a lack of experience that is keeping him in close, you might try meeting up with a friend and hunting your dogs together. If he's staying close to "dad" because he is kind of timid and unsure about getting too far out, then hunting him with another dog would give him more confidence to push out there a little farther.

I'm not much of a trainer so take that advice with a grain of salt, but I've observed my dog extending her range when hunting with a friend's dog.
 
I know a little competition will often help a dog become more aggressive for everything - retrieves too. He might range more wanting to find the birds before the other dog can and worry less about where you are.

Chuck
 
As said here, I believe that dogs have a natural inbred range. Very seldom is a dog so deliberate that it translates into 20 yards. Experience will generally encourage a dog to range out a bit farther. I would suggest that if it is a busy search at 20 yards, I for one am less concerned, as apposed to a situation where dogs get "hung up", on scents or cover and are overly concerned with the obviously vacant area. Both are symptoms of youth, but the hang up deal can be maddening, and hard to cure.
 
SetterNut said:
Run him some in open country, where he can see you at a longer distance.

If you are planting birds for him. Plant them farther and farther out. Make him get away from you to find birds.

.
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Steve and I train together, and this is something that we do. Plant birds on lines, on edges farther out so he has to find them and run to get them.

Vizslas can run, and do, if you get them from the right lines... And I will always encourage them to get out, and this is one way I do it. I hardly EVER plant birds nearby though, cause that can shorten em up.

The idea of letting them see you plant the birds is an interesting one though. Something to ponder, thanks!
 
pnsballard said:
Great inputs. Thanks! Have you used the "plant/put him up high" technique before? Seems like it may reinforce it as well if you do that first and let him "cheat" with 3-4 birds then go again the next day and don't let him watch. Thoughts?
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It is a yo yo efect. I would do it a few times before you stop. Then if he is punching too much, roll them in and call him into the bird. Shackle them so they don't run off on you. Simple but it works well. Making that dog watch will jack him up. Now even better to make him watch another dog a couple days first.:thumbsup:
 
SetterNut said:
There are a few things that will help, but only so much.

First off the more you get him out the more likely his confidence will go up along with his range.

Also, try not to talk to him or give him direction. Especially when he is coming to check in. Try to avoid eye contact as well when he is checking in. Let him learn on his own.

Run him some in open country, where he can see you at a longer distance.

If you are planting birds for him. Plant them farther and farther out. Make him get away from you to find birds.

His range will also tend to get longer the older and more experience in the field he is.

Keeping quite will help, is one that helped me, and him getting older and more experience.

Hope that helps, good luck, have fun, and let him learn. It will not happen over night.
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SETTER I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID especially the more you take him the more confidence they get but heres what is and keeps going through my head he doesnt have typical ranging dog like you and i are used to, to get the job done and range out there,not saying some wont ,but if im wanting one to range out more start with the better upland dogs setters, pointers, britts . i
 
only a pointer said:
SETTER I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID especially the more you take him the more confidence they get but heres what is and keeps going through my head he doesnt have typical ranging dog like you and i are used to, to get the job done and range out there,not saying some wont ,but if im wanting one to range out more start with the better upland dogs setters, pointers, britts . i
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Well I think you may find the average range for some breeds is greater than others. But I have seen some very short ranging Setters, Pointers and Britts. But depending on what and where you hunt, that can be a good thing. If you are hunting on small plots, its not all that great to have your dog 1/2 mile off the property :eek: The western part of the country is better suited to the wider ranging dogs.

But one of the biggest running dogs I have seen is a year old Vizsla :eek:

I really think that this dog will extend is range some as it gets older and experiences more birds. Birds are a powerful medicine for most dogs :D

For most of us our dogs are part of the family, they are going to be with us no matter what. All you can do is your best to get the best out of them.
"You Dance with the one that brung ya" , but you can teach them some new dance steps :thumbsup:
 
Does the dog cast out farther if you hunt him downwind? Then stay short when hunting upwind, or quartering into it? It's not the worst problem to have from a Spaniel guy's point of view!
 
FCSpringer said:
Making that dog watch will jack him up. Now even better to make him watch another dog a couple days first.:thumbsup:
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I completely agree! We started with a quiet, sweet pup, and the first time we did this, she was screaming bloody murder to get out of that crate and hunt birds. Did this on her first official training day, and never looked back.

I've noticed as she's gotten older and more confident, her range has opened up too. More bird contacts will help for sure.
 
pnsballard said:
How do I get my dog to range farther? Anyone have experience or a drill to get them to do it in practice? My Vizsla (I know they range close anyway) is only ranging out from 20ft-20yds. He checks back often and he's at 20ft more often than 20yds. This is his first full season really at 24mos. I couldn't get out like I wanted to last year so I'm a little behind. When he gets on a scent he will track it out farther and I've had him out to about 50yds, maybe a little more but that is rare. I think we are running off more birds or missing them because he is too close to me. Anyone have any tips/tricks/advice? I'd like to be able to tell him to hunt 'em up and he goes out 30-50yds right away. Instead he does figure 8s almost right ni front of me. Does this improve over time/experience as he gains confidence and gets over more birds? I haven't had the opportunity to get him over pigeons but twice. Just have not had the bird source and opportunity.
Click to expand...

Don't be too quick to form a judgement with this dog. I can't tell how much time you have spent in the field with the dog but if you have only worked him on pigeons "twice" he may need a little more time to figure out the game plan. Check out Prairie Drifter's signature "Trust The Dog". While that phrase will mean different things to different people, to me it's a reminder to not over handle my dogs. The great trainer, Delmar Smith, talks about "happy timing" and there is a lot to be said for dropping your expectations and just enjoy getting out and letting your dog run. Sometimes the best thing I can do for my dogs is let them figure it out on their own. There is no substitute for getting the dog out and getting the dog into birds. Training is important but it takes "birds" to make a bird dog. My buddies and I have already bought over 10 dozen pen raised quail for our dogs this year in addition to the hunting trips we have made. We have a couple of young dogs that need the work and the older dogs seem to enjoy themselves. The backyard is the place for training but the field is the place for "exposure" and "conditioning" and FUN!!!!
 
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You have the answer. Young dogs range wider as they gain experience naturally. If this dog after some field experience continues to hunt to short to suit you, it won't be difficult to find an elderly hunter, or paranoid control freak to give it a good home. Some guy is looking for that dog right now! Don't hack it in and hunt in more open country to encourage range, hunting with running screamer might help as well.
 
plenty of good advice already, hunt open country, give him time to gain confidence, etc. experience will fix a lot.

One more thing. Do you think the dog seems to have a "good" nose. Does it know what it is hunting for?? The reason I say this and it kinda relates to the whole trust the dog quote that has been mentioned already.

I can't teach my dogs one thing about what a bird smells like or how to use their nose to find them, their genes take care of that, but what I do know is this: I have two GSP's that will range out plenty far (too damn far sometimes) and other times will be almost right at my feet. What I have figured out is if they are right at my feet I better be ready for a bird soon because there is probably one running around in close proximity. If their wasn't the dog would be off finding a bird somewhere else.

The dogs hunt where the birds are and if they are 20 yds in front of you great (sure beats trying to hoof it 200 yards to a dog on point).

Also vary the pace of your walk - slow down and see if the dog will strike out on his own if he won't then speed up and see if that boosts his energy level and gets him going.
 
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