Puppy mills

FCSpringer

FCSpringer

Moderator
I heard on the radio this morning , a partial topic about a new law coming dealing with pet shops being able to buy any puppies. This is a big supporter of the mills. They will be allowed to get a few shelter dogs and thats it. I think that may be a good Idea.

Also seen something in the Dakotas somewhere they were going farther, making anyone with I think over 3 unaltered dogs to be registered with the USDA. Also it would give the humane soc. the right to check you out un announced any time they choose. Not sure I agree with that, but don't care either. That approach had some good concepts but went to far I thought. Not sure what bill it was, but it was in the house and I think it was ND. Any one know?
 
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FCSpringer said:
Also it would give the humane soc. the right to check you out un announced any time they choose. Not sure I agree with that, but don't care either.
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Ken
I think I would be caring a great deal about anything the Human Society is doing. If it was up to them they would shut down hunting. They certainly would not apprciate your hunting dog training.
 
I was wrong it is SD house bill 1146, here is what someone else wrote about it, I have not seen the bill.


This Legislative Bill from the House of Rep. in South Dakota is a bill that would require all dog breeders, that have three or more unaltered dogs in their kennel, to register with the USDA as a commercial kennel before they can sell any dogs. This means that any breeder with 4 or more unaltered dogs in their kennel for breeding purposes will need to register with the USDA as a commercial breeder. This bill will also enable the Humane Society to enter your property for searches and seizures if a complaint is made, but also if they want to come on to your property without probable cause this bill will let them come in at any point to search and seize your property. Their random checks are protected under this bill. This bill also states that if you have 31 pups per year, this would also require you to register with the USDA as a commercial breeder.
 
It is all starting to come together....

Landman posted a article that talked about a seizure of dogs in SD. The case might get tossed because Animal Control lied about what they saw.This is probably a response to that.

Thankfully I have faith in the SD legislature not to give that power to an organization that would like to shut down all modern animal agriculture.
 
I actually posted this about 172 dogs seized. Second Chance Rescue got a report of a sick puppy and decided to investigate them, then they illegally went in and seized the dogs by misleading the judge to issue a warrant and to think they were in an unfit condition. I have the thread of every story posted...

heres the link to the stories.. toward the end of the thread, you'll see how they were sick and the CEO of Second Chance steps down for the illegal raid. majority of them were GSP dogs.
 
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Yea, I agree, I think there could be plenty of great Ideas to address puppy mills with out giving those people free run of any breeders place, or involving them at all. The one in MN about the pet shops is a good idea. Focus on where the puppy mills make there money, stop that, and they are done.
 
FCSpringer said:
Yea, I agree, I think there could be plenty of great Ideas to address puppy mills with out giving those people free run of any breeders place, or involving them at all. The one in MN about the pet shops is a good idea. Focus on where the puppy mills make there money, stop that, and they are done.
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So what is definition of a puppy mill? If a guy has a 4 or 5 bitches and sells his puppies to a store does that make him a bad guy. What if he has 1 or 2 and sells there pups to a store? If he does it in a humane way why is that so bad.
 
I would gather from your OP that 3 breed dogs would be a mill. The reason you do not want to commit to a definition of a puppy mill is because you know what a slippery slop that creates. Again I do not want dogs being raised in-humanely. But I also do not want other people dictating what they think is right based on prejudices.
 
I'd need to see the details of the bills language but it seems to me that the 3 dog thing has been tried in other states and a whole host of people--from hunting organizations, AKC/UKC, breed clubs--all have claimed that it would be ridiculous and overbearing to require everyone with such a small number of pups to register.

And you have to provide details on which humane society you are talking about--HSUS is the bad one, all the time. AHS and most local chapters in this part of the country are fine and agree with most of us for the most part. One of the local leaders boards my GSP's from time to time, lives in the country, and hunts a bit. Doesn't even bother me to get them spayed/neutered at an early age.
 
I just saw the MN bills, It apears the same almost, except there is a 20 dog limmit,or 5or more litters, before needing a commercial lic. Otherwise the same with inspections, but they are to be conducted in the bussiness hrs. I do not see anything about what I heard on the radio.
M, I can't think of any responsible breeders that sell dogs to pet shops. They are one of the biggest contributers to mills. Therefore I think all pet shops should not be alowed to buy and sell any dogs and cats. We don't have a big problem with lizzards or fish. This would close the big market for mills. They then can some how work with the shelters to place homes for rescue or shelter dogs. There are plenty of responsible breeders for people to get dogs and cats from. Also I might ad I know some people from the humane soc. that hunt and have dogs, the thereoy that all want to stop us from hunting is not true. There are people on this forum that work with adoption that hunt. It is all tied togeather. Yes there is serious Peta, but many in the actual humane soc. just want the mills stopped. And they should be, My opinion.
 
Most breeders Ive come across usually have two adult dogs and the puppies. Never seen a breeder have up to 170 dogs at once. And that is just plain crazy too.

I couldnt see myself handling 170 dogs with out a good amount of staff to pay to keep the dogs healthy, let alone feed and clean kennels.

I agree, there has to be a limit. In numberous states, even if you are NOT a breeder, you cant have numberous of dogs or cats or both in your house. Animal police or Humane Society will take them and often times let the owner off on a ticket or warning.. ive seen old lady on tv had over 20 cats, 16 dogs in a single wide trailer house. they let her keep 3 dogs, and 5 cats and told her they have to be nutuered or she will face a fine.

dogs dont deserve to be kenneled all the time, nor have no exercise bc the owner locks them up for money.
 
FCSpringer said:
M, I can't think of any responsible breeders that sell dogs to pet shops. They are one of the biggest contributers to mills. Therefore I think all pet shops should not be alowed to buy and sell any dogs and cats. We don't have a big problem with lizzards or fish. This would close the big market for mills. They then can some how work with the shelters to place homes for rescue or shelter dogs. There are plenty of responsible breeders for people to get dogs and cats from. .
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But that is were the slipper slope starts. People would say the same thing about the rabbits and cats in the stores or the gerbils. I can not see why you would want to buy a pet from a store but if people want to they should be able to. I do not think it is accurate to say that all people who sell puppies to pet shops are irresponsible.


FCSpringer said:
Also I might ad I know some people from the humane soc. that hunt and have dogs, the thereoy that all want to stop us from hunting is not true. There are people on this forum that work with adoption that hunt. It is all tied togeather. Yes there is serious Peta, but many in the actual humane soc. just want the mills stopped. And they should be, My opinion.
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I should have said Humane Society of the United States (HSUS), not American Humane Society. HSUS is the larger of the two. Yes they do want to end all hunting. Just go to there web site and check out there positions it would scare you. I would not be associated with HSUS for any reason.
 
That's the problem--administrative powers. I've stated before that tho Rosie stepped in it down in Hurley, I would be reluctant to buy a dog from a guy like Christensen raising that many. Where does he sell most of his dogs and does he keep decent records on who the parents are? Hips?
Many backyard breeders really do not care who the mate is--they just have the best hunting dog in the world and know the puppies are going to be great.
It's a can of worms of large proportions. Governments are prone to give too much power to the likes of the Humane society and others. The same thing has now gone on with the EPA and the greenhouse gases "ruling". Not a ruling, but a directive that will impact us all.
I am definitely anti-puppy mill, but hate to see bills and laws applied with a one size fits all approach. I have 6 dogs none nuetered, but only two have ever bred. I have no intentions of ever breeding 3 of them. Will I have to register and be subgect to inspection? I hope not.
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TRICHOMES
 
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at one point.. USHS president did steal alot of money where it shouldve went to the katrina animals. he took all the donations and kept it for himself... or at least thats what i heard..


i wouldnt trust any USHS service.. second chance was operated by a woman who had too much emotions instead of using her policy procedures and decided to lie to the judge to get the warrant to seize the dogs... and didnt have a license vet on site of the raid.
 
Uncle Buck said:
I am definitely anti-puppy mill, but hate to see bills and laws applied with a one size fits all approach. I have 6 dogs none nuetered, but only two have ever bred. I have no intentions of ever breeding 3 of them. Will I have to register and be subgect to inspection? I hope not.
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Not unless you intend to sell dogs on a regular basis.. if you do, then they require you to have a license if you breed more than 22 or something puppies a year.

if you dont, then you dont need one and you could have 10 dogs, but they cant be breeding or in an unfit area.

There are indepent guide services and one of them i know personally has 10 hunting dogs, he does NOT breed but uses 5 dogs per hunting for a hunting lodge for hire. hes not required to have a license bc he doesnt breed.
 
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