problem hawks

The RR property is probably the main reason You have the pheasants you do have there. Not only the parcel you mention but the Right of way itself. For whatever reason pheasants aren't afraid of trains. And RR R of W's are very poorly maintained. Saying theres weeds and grasses and brush all along RR's Besides there is some security from predators.
I think some good heavy cover, and some good grasses. Little Blue Stem, Side Oats go very well with Ranger Alfalfa and Sweet Clover. Excellent nesting and brood cover. Added to your property.
Wheat planted early Spring would be a good choice. Planted early wheat will get a jump start on the warm season weeds. The weeds that come later in the wheat will be a benefit to pheasants.
Don't spray or mow. let it go.

The way you describe, the timber on your property won't have any value as far as pheassnts are concerned. Brushy cover within a grassland is good.

Raspberry's, That is A GREAT plan! :thumbsup:
Get a tall rangy variety.VERY much! bird friendly.:cheers:
 
I wish I could get hedge rows of raspberrys to grow where I live. Cutting down perch trees is a good way to make life harder on hawks. Where I live we only cut the dead trees down because we are trying to get a turkey population going and roost trees are few and far between.
 
Hawks will do most of their hunting from up above for a variety of reasons. They cover so much more area for one, their hungry when in the air for another. The main reason is the "cone" from above gives the hawk less plant growth to look through. Hawks rely on speed to attack prey, much more efficient from an air born take off.
A perched hawk is a lot like any predator in the "resting mode" Lions or wolves for instance laying around are little threat to their prey species.

Or:) Like you guys after a big meal, What do you do? Go to your favorite perch, digest a while. Recliner, couch perhaps. :thumbsup:
Not to say you you won't after a nice nap head back to the fridge. Same with hawks.
As far as trees go, some of the best wild pheasant county I've seen has trees lots of them.

Trees in a grassland is a good thing, grassland in trees not a good thing.

Coyotes in the northern pheasant range are the Number 1 pheasant threat.
Nest robbers Skunks, racoons, Ravens etc will get the nest, the hen will renest. A hen killed by a Coyote won't get the chance to nest.
A ground roosting pheasant has no chance against a night hunting coyote.
Coyotes are smart they learn fast.
Coyotes are devastating on Wintering hens.
 
CMC, are you confused yet? Let me clarify what I said. Individual trees in a grassland habitat provide a perch for raptors that allow them to hunt without expending any energy for hours on end. However, tight clumps of trees that have a low canopy, say under 7 feet, provide good winter and excape habitat even if found in grassland habitat. In this scenario, birds could move directly from grass cover to woody cover without being exposed. Keeping raptors on the wing increases their threshhold of success where they have to be more successful to meet their caloric need each day.

Conversely, grass in an otherwise timbered area is a positive. Savannah type woodlands allow sunlight to reach the ground where basal herbaceous growth (grass, forbs, shrubs) diminish the cone of vulnerability by providing screening cover for foraging birds making it necessary for any raptors to be more directly overhead in order to observe their potential prey. It is basic geometry. Any canopied timber where the canopy is high allows raptors to fly under the canopy and hunt unabated on a forest floor that is generally devoid of cover as the sunlight is trapped by the canopy and rarely reaches the ground. Imagine a large cone inverted over a small cone somewhat like and X with the top half extended. In order for the raptor to see a game bird in the bottom cone, he has to be in the top cone to obtain visual contact. The smaller the bottom cone, the more vertical the sides of the top cone and the more restricted space that the raptor has to be successful from. If I'm going too mumbo jumbo for you, let me know.
 
I don't do "mumbo jumbo" But I can tell Y'all facts from some 50 years of die hard pheasant study.
The BEST consistent pheasant producing areas in North America all have things in common. Woody cover within a grassland, Lots of Winter shelter, Manmade food supplies during the tough Winter Months, Low areas like Wet lands, Trees, yes for sure. Cattails, etc must be left intact. Spot burning, Maybe, I've never seen a benefit to burning grasslands. Remember Ringnecks did not evolve with the American Prairies.
This is a pheasant site. My thing here is to share info about pheasants and their required habitat.
And, Hawks in trees, power poles etc are in the resting mode, Can't believe the argument?:confused:
What do ALL predators do after a kill? Think about it.

:cheers:
 
I have shelter belts that were planted for the benefit of cattle. The taller the trees the more wind protection. There are hundreds of trees that are suitable for hawks and owl and eagles to sit in. I am not going to cut any of them down. I have a pair of owls that live in the shelter belt that is by my house. I have seen Golden and Bald eagles sitting in the same tree at the same time, I enjoyed that very much and even took some pictures. I am sure that they eat pheasants and rabbits and mice and whatever else they are supposed to eat. I enjoy the birds of prey and I have not run out of pheasants yet. I think they are part of the balance that nature needs. What is true for me may not be true for everyone, but I think that raptor pressure is part of what makes them wild and why people drive so far to hunt them. They are the ultimate wild bird, the best nature can produce.
 
Haymaker you do have a good grasp on the situation.
You have lots of trees and woody cover, right?:thumbsup:

For sure hawks do eat pheasants. Hawks will get one at a time educating the rest of the brood.
Making them a bit harder for us with the scatter gun. :eek:

That is for sure why you DO NOT destroy the woody cover. That is if you want to maintain a wild pheasant population.

Coyotes once again. :eek: Even though we hear it from time to time. :eek::eek:
Are beneficial your pheasants. WOW! :confused:
 
I think shelter belts are the kind of woody cover Troy is talking about being beneficial the raptors can't fly thought it hunting because the canopy is low. It is the lone tree in the prairie were they like to sit and hunt. I do believe they are hunting not just resting.
 
mnmthunting said:
The RR property is probably the main reason You have the pheasants you do have there. Not only the parcel you mention but the Right of way itself. For whatever reason pheasants aren't afraid of trains. And RR R of W's are very poorly maintained. Saying theres weeds and grasses and brush all along RR's Besides there is some security from predators.
I think some good heavy cover, and some good grasses. Little Blue Stem, Side Oats go very well with Ranger Alfalfa and Sweet Clover. Excellent nesting and brood cover. Added to your property.
Wheat planted early Spring would be a good choice. Planted early wheat will get a jump start on the warm season weeds. The weeds that come later in the wheat will be a benefit to pheasants.
Don't spray or mow. let it go.

The way you describe, the timber on your property won't have any value as far as pheassnts are concerned. Brushy cover within a grassland is good.

Raspberry's, That is A GREAT plan! :thumbsup:
Get a tall rangy variety.VERY much! bird friendly.:cheers:
Click to expand...

Yes I miss the days of been able to hunt the rail road right of ways. They where great. big tumble weeds provide heavy cover from predation and late season the pheasants where there.:)
 
I think the point Prairie Drifter is making is; There's a possibility that there's too many trees in too many areas that would otherwise be/should be grasslands, hence, causing an imbalance in predation--or, simply giving a few predators too much of an upper hand, making it overly difficult for upland game birds to sustain a healthy population on and around CMC's property/area. Therefore, the trees can be contributing to the decrease/lack of upland game bird numbers.

Some trees/"woody" cover can be good in the right place with the right grassland-to-tree ratio. Too many trees, and in some cases (depending on the area) just a few trees can do more harm than good for upland game birds.

In the 1980's and 1990's Michigan spent over 10 Million dollars trying to find a solution to their "woody" cover problem. The "Sichuan"/Strauchi pheasant program in part, was intended to find a line of pheasants that could survive in woodland cover. As more grasslands where being lost to (too much) "woody" cover, wild pheasant populations began decreasing. Unfortunately that portion of the program failed. N. America's "woody" cover take over proved to be too much for even the tremendously wild and alert Sichuan/Strauchi to handle due to predation issues.
 
I think this is a pretty good example of trees that need to come out. They are trees out in the pasture. Hawks and see down in to the grass all around.

I will be taking trees out like this over the next couple years. But the plum thickets and some of the trees around the edges will be staying.

P1000117.jpg




But these trees and woody cover around the crop fields are staying for the most part,
Dwight148_18.jpg
 
Last edited:
Steve,

I thick the 1st pic you posted need some trimming of dead branches. The 2nd pic i don't understand what you mean, looks to me like a wind break and nothing wrong with it. Inform me to your wisdom.:)
 
In the 2nd picture you are looking down an old fence line. It is a bunch of plum thickets and low trees. That is good quail cover and its staying.

The first picture is in the pasture on the other side of that fence row. There are a number of pretty big hedge trees growing out there. The cedar trees are growing up under the hedge trees, that have lost their leaves for the winter. Hawks can and do sit up in those trees and have a good view of anything moving in that section of the pasture. Those are going to be cut down.
 
Missed a lot while I was down and out for the day sick. But I'm back on a midnight shift at work so I got to catch up a bit.
Glad to hear that RR tracks are a benefit as I'm surrounded by them, my property is a triangle with tracks down 2 sides and property beside me is the same thing.
What I gather from this is I need to improve my nesting/brooding cover. Also maybe remove some (not all) trees to make hawks stay at my property alittle less pleasing.
Someone above had mentioned the hawks are part of the cycle and that he loves to watch them.. This is true also, I'm just trying to limit the ease for them to take pheasants as I try to bring back local population. But very true words as all of us I'm sure on this forum love nature and all it offers. Although I shake my head when I see the hawks circling out back, I also love siting on my back proch watching the cooper hawks display their talent in the sky and I'm amazed when I get to see one take a dove out of the sky. That all being said I'm not trying to run them out of town just limit there success.
Thanks to all for the info, lots of work to do and I hate waiting but right now everything is under 1.5 foot of snow. I think I'm leaning towards doing a bit of brush clearing and planting some wheat/ shelter grass, remove a few perch/resting trees and I still have a low hole that is wet all the time I would like to fill up with cattails.
Also I have a 1 to 1.5 acre spot beside the house I will be filling with pine trees in the spring and I'm going to planting a few rows out in the mix of the property.
As the snow moves on and I get started I will post up some pics for my suggestions.
 
Several years ago when Pheasant hunting in Iowa I got permission from a farmer to hunt his property. He took us in his auto and drove us around to show us his properties that we could hunt. As he was driving us around he kept referring to hawks as "POOF" hawks. After several references to these "POOF hawks I asked him what it meant by this, his reply was, "when you shoot them things with a 30.06 they go "POOF".
 
moellermd said:
I think shelter belts are the kind of woody cover Troy is talking about being beneficial the raptors can't fly thought it hunting because the canopy is low. It is the lone tree in the prairie were they like to sit and hunt. I do believe they are hunting not just resting.
Click to expand...

IMHO, I think you hit it right on the head. I don't think anyone on this post is saying all woody cover is bad for pheasants. There are some trees however that need to get cut down from time to time. Especially in areas that have higher hawk populations than pheasants which is the case in my neck of the woods. A friend of mine works for pheasants forever and always talks about how there are more raptors than ever. If this is true the only management tool you can use is to make hunting upland birds harder on the hawks which includes, cutting down trees they can easily watch birds from and creating good ground cover to conceal the upland birds. Hedge rows are great but lone trees with many dead branches in a CRP field or near a food plot helps the hawks put a good dent in your bird population each season.
 
There does seem to be a lot of hawks.
Where you have hawks hanging out its not because of your trees or powerpoles, fence posts etc. Hawks are there because of the prey, hunting for food.

I wonder how many times I've said on there forums. (You need all the pieces of the puzzle in place) Then the pheasants will be there.

Lone scattered trees in a grassland won't do anything to benefit pheasants. Brush, cedars are important piece of the puzzle.

Obviously on this thread, some talk Bobwhite habitat and I'm talking only pheasant habitat.
We should have this on separate threads. Do a Quail habitat thread, I'd like to learn more about it. :)
All I know is The quail are native to the grasslands and evolved with it.
Pheasants came with the homesteaders, thrived with the help of agriculture. Including planting of groves, shelterbelts, plum thickets, Hedgerows etc.

Hawks are a problem with pheasants. With the right mix of Alfalfa, Sweet Clover, grasses, brushy areas, you can limit hawk predation. Like I've sad many times a hawk will take a couple chicks out of the brood making the survivors very wise, more able to avoid all types of dangers.
 
CMC said:
Question for you all.
how do you guys deal with trying to keep hawks away or dealing with hawks hanging around?
I was thinking about this the other day, which smaller birds put the most pressure on hawks? which smaller birds try the hardest to push hawks out of their home turf?
maybe trying to keep those smaller birds around would help keep the hawks occupied and slow them down on killing as many game birds and their chicks. maybe placing some housing for small birds or planting a few trees that keep the smaller (guard birds lol) close by.
thoughts?

while we are at it how do others deal with racoons, weasels, etc. besides the obvious of shooting them.
Click to expand...

If we all look back to the original question, it is what to do with hawks, racoons, weasels etc that are preying on pheasants. I believe that is what I covered. Mollermd, Steve, 1phes4, and Frangler, thanks for your clarifications. We're dealing with individual trees that might be spread out across the grassland/shrubland habitat the CMC indicates he has. On the higher latitudes, the woody components become much more necessary due to the snow cover and extreme cold. Since most of the raptors migrate, dealing with them in the winter is not the crux. Dealing with them predating the birds that survived the winter and are moving out into nesting cover to set up territories, fight, breed, and nest is the topic. Since legal means is what we can discuss, that leaves primarily limiting the lone trees that favor effortless hunting in that habitat and increasing the screening cover's efficiency of limiting the cone of vulnerability where raptors are less likely of seeing prey in the first place.

CMC, you sound like you picked up the core of the discussion. Do please check with soil compatability before deciding on any practices as you don't want to throw limited funds/effort away on projects that might be doomed to fail from the get go. Steve's pics were spot on. The first one shows tall perches surrounded by cedars that would function as mesopredator habitat as well. Those trees are gettin near the age where they might also develop cavaties that could support racoon and possum dens, further exacerbating the problem. The hedge rows/timber function in a different manner all together, though they also pose some of the same threats at times. The low canopy of most of these woody habitat types do limit avian predation, especially from buteo group predators. We've strayed away from the furbearing predators, but their control is more straight forward. It can again be influenced by your vegetation management, but can also be met head on with some additional winter recreation.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top