Poll in the latest edition of the PF Magazine

Dakotazeb

Dakotazeb

Well-known member
I saw in the Fall Preview edition of the PF magazine that there was a poll on their web site.

Poll: What bird dog trait is most important to you as a pheasant hunter?
Obedience
Hunting Drive
Retrieving Ability
Stylish Point

http://pheasantsforever.org/

My vote was for Obedience. You have to have a dog that is under control. Without obedience the drive, retrieving ability or style of point means nothing.
 
Yep, without obedience you got nothing.
 
I agree obedience is always number 1 in my book. I hate to hunt with hunters that continually screaming at their dog to do something and getting the finger from the dog............Bob
 
I would have to throw out a stylish point. :D and I would write in Bird finding. With out being able to find birds using the wind and nose theres nothing to train for Obedience. So from that list it would be Hunting drive. Most dogs with that "drive" will retrieve, will have a stylish FLUSH:D and all can be taught Obedience. You can't put drive into a dog, it's bred into them. " Hunting Drive"
 
I suppose I would pick obedience, but a dog with no drive is more of a show stopper IMO, therefore having some amount of drive is probably more important.
 
I've seen plenty of dogs with tremendous drive but they were totally out of control in the field. You can have them. While I agree that drive is important and something that can't be taught, if you can't control the dog in the field what good is it? It all starts with obedience. And that's one thing that can be taught. Guess that is why I fail to understand how anyone can have what they call a hunting dog and not have tought it any basic obedience.
 
I have my hands full with Gunne right now. Since he has been to the trainer and had some birds to point. 3 pigeons shot and dropped for him. His natural ability has kicked into over-drive. His intensity and hunting drive have gone through the roof. Now when I blow "HERE" on the whistle, it takes 3-4 times before I can wake him up to the fact I want him. I am glad I am dealing with this now. I have a few months to get him back to being an obedient puppy. I DO NOT want to use a e-collar to get his attention at this time. He is still a 6 month old pup plenty of time to learn from doing..........Bob
 
My Labs a taught obedience from a very young age. For sure very important.
But I have to go with hunting drive.:)
 
bobeyerite said:
I have my hands full with Gunne right now. Since he has been to the trainer and had some birds to point. 3 pigeons shot and dropped for him. His natural ability has kicked into over-drive. His intensity and hunting drive have gone through the roof. Now when I blow "HERE" on the whistle, it takes 3-4 times before I can wake him up to the fact I want him. I am glad I am dealing with this now. I have a few months to get him back to being an obedient puppy. I DO NOT want to use a e-collar to get his attention at this time. He is still a 6 month old pup plenty of time to learn from doing..........Bob
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Bob, I ran into the same thing with Elle at about the same age. I think they are like a teenager wanting to flex their freedom. I did end up going to the e-collar. It only took a couple of light nicks on the collar and the problem was solved. I too was concerned due to her age, but if done properly you shouldn't have any problems and you know how to use an e-collar. I wouldn't be afraid to try it to re-enforce your commands. Worked great for me. Good luck.
 
A strong drive for me. It makes obedience easier in my opinion. You can teach all dog obedience and if you have that strong drive a correction is understood but doesn't have a lasting effect. I have a very soft lab but his drive will pull him through any training session. My vizsla has no drive but great obedience. You can put a bird in front of him and he could care less but he will come, sit and heel with no questions asked. If you ask me all the time you spend training a dog obedience is pointless with out the drive unless all you want is a very well behaved house dog.
 
If you ask me all the time you spend training a dog obedience is pointless with out the drive unless all you want is a very well behaved house dog.
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And all the drive is useless if you don't have any obedience. Guess it's much like the question, "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" :)
 
Dakotazeb said:
I've seen plenty of dogs with tremendous drive but they were totally out of control in the field. You can have them. While I agree that drive is important and something that can't be taught, if you can't control the dog in the field what good is it?
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I completely agree with you that without obedience, the dog is hurting the hunt more than helping. If it were possible to teach a dog drive, I'd put obedience first. Drive is similar to range - it's easier to bring a dog in closer than it is to get him to range farther. Adding the obedience can be a should be done to every good hunting dog, but without the drive to hunt, it won't amount to what it could be. :)
 
I reckon all bird dog people agree.:cool:
You got to have both in your dog, hunting drive and obedience.
 
Dakotazeb said:
And all the drive is useless if you don't have any obedience. Guess it's much like the question, "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" :)
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Like having the fastest racecar without steering?

Keep working Gunne with the whistle. It will be automatic. I use a collar with tone also and its like having a radio controlled dog. He doesn't even think about it even when distracted. I rarely have to nick him.
 
Hunting drive is the most important charicteristic IMO. W/o the drive to hunt, who cares if the dog listens or not? Does the dog hunt withing an acceptable range most of the time? Good. Does the dog bring my birds back most of the time? Good. Does the dog hunt until it can't hunt anymore just b/c it has the drive? EVEN BETTER! I know most of you disagree, and maybe obedience will mean more to me as I age, but I'd rather not put an emphasis on obedience over hunting drive. One that decides to do what I need it to, not b/c I've broke it down to nothing, but b/c we're a team. Too many hunters want a dog that can be turned into a tool, like play dough in their hands. I'd rather have a companion that is driven to please me (like I desire to please him/her) and hunt birds, not an underfoot that does exactly what I tell it to when I tell it to......that's the relationship I want w/ my wife not my dog:D

BTW, I'm the kind of guy that would take a fast car down a track w/o any guarantee of the ability to steer or brake;) Only in the past couple years have I been able to refrain from running 10 yards toward a bird before I shoot. My strong suit has never been to be obedient myself....I suppose that's why I've always enjoyed a free-spirited dog that just wants to find lots of birds quickly.
 
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You know, I think we are all interpreting this question differently. And maybe it is a "loaded" question. Maybe even a stupid question. The question was, "what bird dog trait is most important to you as a pheasant hunter?" The key word in the question is "trait'. Webster defines trait as: a distinguishing quality, an inherited characteristic.

With this definition in mind I would have to say that "drive" is a trait since it's an inherited characteristic. Obedience is something that is taught. Thus, I don't think obedience probably should have even been one of the possible answers.

So I change my answer to "Drive" based on the above definition and information. However, I still feel strongly that obedience is extremely important in a hunting dog. This doesn't mean that the dog needs to be "under your feet", it just means that a person needs to be able to control your dog. I've seen too many out of control dogs in the field and it just plain ruins the hunt.

OK, so is everyone now clear on this question???? :D
 
After reading the definition and the question, I to change my vote/opinion to drive. But I agree with DZ, you have to obedience to control that drive. If the dog is going over a hill on me. I want to "Whoa" him and wait for me. I have had him go over the hill to many times and go on point. I play hell finding him for I don't know where to look. He won't flush or release until the hunter is there next to him. Which is what a pointing dog should do. So yes I want obedience/drive........Bob
 
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