Plateau Year 1 on CRP good idea?

UGUIDE

UGUIDE

Active member
Guys, if new WSG's are not going to germinate and grow year 1, why bother putting the expensive Plateau chemical down to keep everything black? Wouldn't you be better off just letting what comes come in and clip it for maint 1st year and then put a good coating of Plateau down in spring on year 2?
 
UGUIDE said:
Guys, if new WSG's are not going to germinate and grow year 1, why bother putting the expensive Plateau chemical down to keep everything black? Wouldn't you be better off just letting what comes come in and clip it for maint 1st year and then put a good coating of Plateau down in spring on year 2?
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That would work too. However, applying Plateau at planting time can be considered Ground Preparation for cost share purposes. If you apply it the second year you won't get cost share for it. That's one reason to do it the first year. A lot depends on he weed pressure that your field may have. If you have a lot of weed pressure then adding Plateau right away will help your new grass to establish faster the following year.

I just mowed my new CRP planting and could see the new grasses growing but it was only a couple of inches tall. There were a few switchgrass but the rest was mostly the wheatgrass that was in the mixture and of course weeds which I mowed. I mowed it so to leave about an 8 inch stubble.

LM
 
UGUIDE said:
LM, was that CRP your 1st year planting? I have to agree on the group prep. Seems like you have to be careful to call it ground prep vs. weed control.

I think there is a lot of weed pressure on all this ground
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Yes, I planted 17 acres on May 1 of this year. I really did not want to mow it but did it anyway. It will be nice next year. YOur new CRP may look really weedy this year and even next spring before the warm season grasses start to show up. It may take until year 3 to see a significant reduction in the weeds.

LM
 
landman said:
Yes, I planted 17 acres on May 1 of this year. I really did not want to mow it but did it anyway. It will be nice next year. YOur new CRP may look really weedy this year and even next spring before the warm season grasses start to show up. It may take until year 3 to see a significant reduction in the weeds.

LM
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How about Foxtail? Does the grass eventually overtake it? Does Milestone or Plateau work on Foxtail? Other herbicides?
 
UGUIDE said:
How about Foxtail? Does the grass eventually overtake it? Does Milestone or Plateau work on Foxtail? Other herbicides?
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Yes, most of the foxtail will disappear after the first year and for sure after the 2nd year. There isn't much you can do with Foxtail, except mow, because its a grass and there isn't any herbicide that I know of that will kill Foxtail that won't also kill your new grass.

I've experienced a lot of sandburs the first year too, which can be disappointing when trying to hunt the stubble the first year. But those will disappear after the first year for sure.

I think what you are describing is very typical of a new warm season planting and you should have a nice stand by this time next year.
 
The benefit of the Plateau in year 1 is that the seedlings from this small of seed that their vigor can be outcompeted by the weeds. The chemical gives the grass the competitive adavantage and helps with the establishment. These plants grow more below ground than above in the first year, and alot of what we've said before about little or no growth in the first year is just that. The plants are there building root mass, but the above ground portion is difficult to find and identify. By not "looking" the first year, it alleviates the stress of not seeing the stand progress.
 
Prairie Drifter said:
The benefit of the Plateau in year 1 is that the seedlings from this small of seed that their vigor can be outcompeted by the weeds. The chemical gives the grass the competitive adavantage and helps with the establishment. These plants grow more below ground than above in the first year, and alot of what we've said before about little or no growth in the first year is just that. The plants are there building root mass, but the above ground portion is difficult to find and identify. By not "looking" the first year, it alleviates the stress of not seeing the stand progress.
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So PD, if this is true then what I would expect to see is a stonger establishment of WSG next spring summer in spots where Plateau was applied property and maybe some issues where not apllied strong enough and where weeds came in this summer which is where I needed to mow.

Are there any benefits to applying fertilizer to new stands of WSG? Assume there is only 10lbs nitrogen in soil to start with.
 
More Analysis on Plateau and WSG plantings

PD & LM,

Here are some interesting tidbits after further analysis on Plateau Label.

Assume my WSG planting is Big Blue, Little Blue, Indian Grass, Switch, and Western Wheat (which most all my CRP is as prescribed by NRCS).

Foxtail - will control it is applied pre-emergement and post emergent if applied before plant gets beyond 4-6 inches ('ve witnessed this in my new FWP planting. Foxtail has come where herbicide not applied. Milestone did not work on foxtail)

Sandbur - Will supress it pre-emerge and will control it post-emerge

Cheatgrass - Control pre-emerge but no control post emerge (interesting, I applied roundup/plateau post emerge and got control in one plot so maybe it was the roundup that did the job)

Big Blue, little blue and Indian - No problems applying to new or established seeding at 2-12 OZ per acre. (i.e. very tolerant).

Switchgrass - If you have this grass planted in your stand you should not use anymore than 2-4 OZ per acre or you run risk of suppressing or losing that species. Not as much of issues is switch is planted in blended stand.

Western Wheatgrass - A little more tolerant than switch grass. Specifies not to apply pre-emergent but can apply post emerge 2-12 OZ/acre.

Summary - Seems like a person could apply 4OZ/acre first year but may injure the Western wheat. Another strategy would be to go wth 4OZ/acre 2nd year but would not work on cheatgrass unless applied with roundup (must apply while WSG's are dormant). Looks like Western Wheatgrass is only cool season in mix so roundup application inMay could wipe this out. Maybe best to not include with WSG from a stand management perspective.

Please chime in with other info, observations, expereince and findings. This will be a good reference for me and others in future.

Chris
 
Growth the second year in the plants that extablished this year will be significantly more than what you saw this first year because of the growth in the root mass initially. You can't apply any herbicide now that has glyphosate in it(roundup). It is a non-selective contact herbicide and will kill everything including your WSG. I'm not real sure why you're so concerned with the second year. The grass should compete better in the second year and a clipping could be used if serious weed competition occurs. From a bird standpoint, the weeds are probably more important than the grass you planted in some respects. Having the weeds in your stand will increase it's benefits for birds and extend those benefits for additional years compared to a stand where all weeds were controlled. The problem with NWSG is it's tendency to get too rank and weed free over time. Delaying that or setting it back is what you'll be working on for more years than you'll want us to tell you about. Try to burn it in the next year or two. That'll nove things forward.
 
Prairie Drifter said:
You can't apply any herbicide now that has glyphosate in it(roundup). It is a non-selective contact herbicide and will kill everything including your WSG. I'm not real sure why you're so concerned with the second year. Having the weeds in your stand will increase it's benefits for birds and extend those benefits for additional years compared to a stand where all weeds were controlled.
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PD,

I am aware of the risks of roundup and the timing needed (cool season when NWSG are dormant).

The concern with year 2 is that Plateau is not to be applied to new NWSG plantings containing westernwheat grass since it is a cool season grass. That means only window is year 2, 4 OZ rate.

I am gun shy because I have a stand that was planted into winterwheat stubble, no weeds grew in it year 1, about 100% cheat grass year 2 (no valuable cover), and just now in year 3 is coming on becuase I applied roundup/plateau in May which worked pretty good on the cheat.

This is no different than farming cash crops. Goal is to reduce inputs and improve results in a sustainable fashion.
 
I just drove around and check all these again. The 3rd year plot is coming nice. some spots of 4 NWSG are 6' tall. I will post pic later.

The new FWP planting is coming. About 25-50% at best but it is coming.

Based on what I am seeing I would probably go with disk black and 4 OZ of Plateau or equal rate of Journey 1st year close to grass plant.
 
I was out looking at some spring grass plantings on farm in Sept with NRCS and PF guys. We had one plot where I had plateau down and grass came in pretty good there first year. There was a spot where I ran out and only did milestone and a lot of weeds came in and not much for grass.

We are implementing 70 acres of CRP next spring and we swapped side oats grama for western wheat sine the side oats plays better with plateau.

Plan is to go in with 5 native warms and then come back in fall and broadcast some alfalfa, sweet clover and other goodies to diversify stand.
 
Prairie Drifter, I am happy to report that 18 acres of CRP that had the cheatgrass problem is now holding a lot of birds and is a beautuful piece of winter habitat. Remember, you prescribed a Journey application before WSG came out of dormancy and that was just the ticket. Holding a lot of birds even with all corn in around this plot.

Thanks again.

In future I swapped in side oats grama for western wheat in the 5 grass blend in new CRP. Will apply 4 oz. of plateau at planting.

70 new acres going in this spring.
 
Sounds like a swing and a hit!!! I like side oats. Killed a lot of birds in it. Plus it's pretty, green or brown. Glad it worked out!!! Also, adding corn and stirring does help:)
 
Prairie Drifter said:
Sounds like a swing and a hit!!! I like side oats. Killed a lot of birds in it. Plus it's pretty, green or brown. Glad it worked out!!! Also, adding corn and stirring does help:)
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PD, we hunted that patch hard this week and it produced birds up the wazoo considering how much corn was still in around it. I'm excited how many birds it will hold and carry through season when the cold nasty weather hits.

Will be very interesting to see how it holds up to snow but I suspect the thermal cover will be good in there.

Thanks for all the help.
 
As the crops come out, it should get better. Also, there are few plant forms that hold up to snow as well as NWSG. A good stand of Kochia will stand well, but the thermal value may be less. Pheasants will bury down in the grass and not be affected by the cold as much. Enjoy!
 
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