Picking the Right One - Trust What or Who?

Steve Mikkelson

New member
I am starting to prepare myself for purchasing a black lab puppy more specifically researching, and could use any advice anyone is willing to share. Feel free to PM me or reply to this post. I live in West Michigan.

Here’s how I’m looking to use the lab (in order of importance):
1. Shed hunting
i. Needs a good nose​
ii. Must retrieve​
iii. Must have hunt and drive​

2. Family indoor dog – Brains / obedience is a must

3. Competition in the field – any type

4. Female that can provide me my next competition dog.
i. I would enjoy having a few litters if I can acquire enough knowledge to be confident I can improve the female’s performance through her off-spring.​

Here’s some background on me so we don’t have to start with go see the parents and start with good bloodlines.
1. I’ve raised, trained and bred competition beagles that run to catch the rabbit for 19 years
i. Phased out due to available training land and my available time to condition the hounds as it takes a good 20 hours a week for a couple months straight to have them in the physical and mental condition to succeed.​

2. I finished CKC & AKC field champions. Also accomplished the pinnacle of it all with AKC national championship win in 2006.
i. No intention a bragging or thinking I can do this in the retriever world, but my point is, I know the amount of work it takes to have a competition dogs that wins.​

3. I’ve bought beagles from the best breeders in the game throughout the US and Canada. I’ve bought dogs out of the best producers and I’ve bought and bred dogs with a glowing red pedigree.
i. I know that the above does not guarantee a thing, but I have learned that creditable and accomplished breeders, proven producers and a pedigree of dogs that suit your desires increase your odds of getting a good one.​

So here are some questions that I have, but feel free to share anything you think I should consider.

1. Any recommendations of breeders? Any in Michigan, northern Ohio or Indiana would be more easy for me to visit.

2. Any recommendations for bloodlines?

3. Expected price range for a female pup. I’ve seen AKC registered dogs from $100 to $1200. I do understand that the older the litter gets, the better price you will get, but you may miss out.

4. Skeletal Health certifications of the sire and dam. Do you stay away from fair or do you only buy excellent?

5. Should I be concerned when a breeder tells me they have never had to cull or is that just not done in the Labrador world?

6. Is there a magazine or web site that identifies a list of the best producing sire and dam for specific types of competition?

7. Is there a “godfather” of labs out there that is willing to share info with me? I know some of the old timers love to pass on there knowledge and others would rather spend the time in the field.

8. If you were to rate the main characteristics of the sire and dam I should consider, what would they be?

If you made it this far through my post, thank you very much for reading.
 
I'm sure you'll get some good help here. I know Jsdriggs loves his Trieven labs and they look like they are bred to hunt all day long.
 
I don't have any useful advice, but welcome to the site.:thumbsup:

I am looking forward to reading people's opinions who know more about the subject.
 
I also used to own beagles and wish I still had one this time of year when the bird season is over. Can't help with the Lab either other than to say I would want to attend a few field trials and get to know the "community" a bit before buying. They would always have people with good bloodlines that you could see in action. The way I see it you will own this dog for many years might as well get the best you can find.
 
I am not familiar with any breeders from your area. I have bought dogs from Crosswind Kennels in IA and have been VERY happy

Most lines will have Lean Mac as he sired a lot of great dogs. Currently Cut a lean grade (Grady) Cj's mister t (tiger) are producing some really nice pups. Hunter runs boo boo (boo) is popular but I am a bit Leary of his pups (I have only seen a couple so take this with a grain of salt). Merlin and Finn are nice dogs as well. I have a Tiger pup and placed a deposit on another....

1000$ will buy a pup from an AFC/FC x MH
An AFC/FC x AFC/FC will probably be 2000-3000$
An NFC x AFC/FC ??????? These are usually sold to hand picked buyers

I will only go with excellent x excellent with maybe a good in a generation or so back

Culling happens but most breeders place the unsatisfactory dogs in homes with a spay neuter contract

RTF the Retreiver training forum has lots of info and opinions

Mary Howley from CandleWoods kennels is the god mother. She has forgotten more than most will ever know. She doesn't have a computer and will offer advice over the phone. She is spread a little thin.....

Having said all that. Buy a Tiger pup! And welcome. Good luck

Steve
 
Your making it sound difficult.
Labs love to hunt and they love to fetch.
I've had some good Labs and all will find bone/sheds. I have piles of sheds. Many found by the Labs.:)
All You need to do is get a good Lab pup. Start it out with a little shed, throwing it short distances at first. You know dogs, they love praise, don't be afraid to give a lot of it. They will soon love to find/fetch bone.
When We shed hunt I tell the pups "find the bone" find the bone" they look and sniff everywhere and everything, and dig out bones, some very old.:rolleyes:

Trouble is,:confused: If I have a shotgun in my hand the Labs DO NOT give a crap about bones. Time for birds. :cheers:

My March-April 2012 finds.
March2012053.jpg
 
Go over to retrievertraining.net and poke around some. Sign up and ask this over there. Not that there isn't anyone here who can't answer your questions but that site is loaded with information on just retrievers.

You will be able to see who is who in the zoo over there on pedigrees. You might even join a retirever club in your area and hang out with them and get some opinions as well.
 
Take a look at Duckhill Kennels. It is owned by Robert Milner. Call Liz the kennel manager as she can anwser all your questions.
 
You CAN NOT go wrong with a pup out of Watermark's The Boss. Also check --Gun Dog Broker- from Alphertta Ga.
 
puppy picking

do some home work and it looks like you are prepared to.. if it were me and i had labs for a lot of years, i would try for a compromise between some good field trial stock and from a place that hunt the hell out of their dogs. of course watch for the hip problem. picking a good puppy out of a litter is a pig in the poke kinda deal but when you do, leave the family home, do a few of the common and maybe useless puppy test, grab one, take it home and start to train it, they are never too young to learn something. and unless you are looking at making the big time with the dog and have that six figures in mind, you'll do just fine

chees
 
Mary Howley from CandleWoods kennels is the god mother. She has forgotten more than most will ever know. She doesn't have a computer and will offer advice over the phone. She is spread a little thin.....QUOTE]


"Hauss" (avatar black lab) was sired by a CandleWood lab. What a wonderful dog. Great hunter, great house dog, and a very smart animal.:)

I'd recommend a CandleWood dog any day. I was very please with their lines. Once Winston's (my current lab) retired, I'm returning to CandleWood blood line.;)

Hauss SD 2003

picture.php
 
Health Clearances

Before picking a breeder, Job #1 needs to be checking up on the health clearances for their breeding stock. For Labs, I would want to see Good or Excellent OFA scores for both hips and elbows on sire/dam and preferably grandparents as well. And CERF Clear for eye diseases. A Lab that goes blind or crippled prematurely isn't fun for anybody. And maybe EIC clear as well?

That said, I'm hearing good things said about Hunters Rose Kennels here in Michigan.

NB
 
Take a look at Duckhill Kennels. It is owned by Robert Milner. Call Liz the kennel manager as she can anwser all your questions.

I have tried to let this post go but I cannot any longer. Mr Milner produced over 300 puppies last year. His breeding stock does not have any health clearances. I have no use for Mr Milner and his boutique puppy mill.

I will take it even further. Col Milner may have been successful training dolphins for the Navy (or what ever he did). But I bet he carries a bag of rocks to the duck blind to help his dogs handle.

I have met and trained with Bob. He is a gentleman..... Just a little to opinionated and money motivated

Steve
 
I have tried to let this post go but I cannot any longer. Mr Milner produced over 300 puppies last year. His breeding stock does not have any health clearances. I have no use for Mr Milner and his boutique puppy mill.

I will take it even further. Col Milner may have been successful training dolphins for the Navy (or what ever he did). But I bet he carries a bag of rocks to the duck blind to help his dogs handle.

I have met and trained with Bob. He is a gentleman..... Just a little to opinionated and money motivated

Steve

I'm not sure what the bag of rocks is about. Milner started wildrose kennel and has been breeding and training labs for years. As far as his breeding stock goes look at their bloodlines. They speak for themselves. Sounds like you are an expert so I'll turn it over to you
 
Are you stuck on a lab? Just asking if it is a preference thing or if you are open minded to other quality retrievers? That being said Tom Dokken from Oak Ridge Kennels kind of started the whole training dogs to hunt sheds in our neck of the woods. His web site is http://www.dokkensoakridgekennels.com/index.htm I have no stock in them or their organization, but he would be a wealth of knowledge in the business. He has trained and knows the best in the lab world. Only problem is that he is in Minnesota a little farther away than what you were looking for. Good luck, keep us posted on what you find and why you chose them!
 
I'm not sure what the bag of rocks is about. Milner started wildrose kennel and has been breeding and training labs for years. As far as his breeding stock goes look at their bloodlines. They speak for themselves. Sounds like you are an expert so I'll turn it over to you

I don't want to start a pissing match and my intentions are not to offend anyone. I am only stating my opinions and I stand behind them. PM if you want a I will give you my phone number so we can speak face to face so to speak.

The bag of rocks is because his dogs do not handle and he needs to throw rocks for his personal dogs to find poorly marked birds. This was said in jest but I wouldn't be to surprised if its true as I have seen his dogs perform

Great bloodlines or not 300 pups is a lot! That is 30-40 litters a year! I wonder how many litters his brood bitches have in a lifetime? The quality of the bloodline may give some indication as to the genetic qualities being passed, But why would you not test hips, eyes etc ? Maybe because they affect the profit margin? Or arrogance????? 300 pups from breeding stock without clearances is foolish.

Yes Bob did own Wildrose and sold it to get into real estate. When the market died he started Duckhill and started doing seminars again. And he was involved with the training of dolphins for sea floor recoveries before leaving the Navy. I believe he retired as a full colonel.

Steve
 
Before You guys get all riled up about the perfect pup for shed antler hunting.
Steve has 1 post and has not been back.
Lets see if He responds. :cheers:
 
Before You guys get all riled up about the perfect pup for shed antler hunting.
Steve has 1 post and has not been back.
Lets see if He responds. :cheers:

He likely decided to get britts and will not be back to this thread. Wise decision, Steve :thumbsup:
 
Attentively, I'm reading every response, and have made a handful of phone calls to the leads that have been presented. Thank you and please keep them coming as it has been very helpful.

I now have a good understanding of the titles and the associated trials, the health clearance language, and what is driving the price of the pups. Some are pricing their dogs based on the market, but some are also basing the price on health, performance of the sire and dam and pedigree. Very few can justify their price, and they are riding the coat tails of more conscious breeders. Some of the $1,000+ pups are extremely over priced relative to the accomplishments of the parents and certifications of slightly higher priced pups.

I want a healthly dog that comes for a lineage that has proven to possess the chacteristics necessary to be a ten year plus intelligent family dog and a shed hunter. Field trialing and hunt test is a important consideration, but not absolutely necessary.
 
I picked my pup - one of one left of a litter - because he looked great, had a great personality, his stub tail wagged constantly, and he came over to me to say hi as I sat on the floor, and the breeders had good things, not perfect things, to say about his parents. It all added up and I got a dandy dog that did it all.
 
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