Pheasant survey is out

[safari]

Safari--What? Is that supposed to be relevant in any way to what we're talking about here? Is that the best you can do? I am confused. Why are you here, now? Let's back up just a bit: We're a bunch of pheasant hunting enthusiasts who love to hunt, shoot, work our dogs, drool over nice guns, share ideas about habitat, offer recipes, and just generally hang out with others who like the same types of things. Whether or not the hunting is great or not is immaterial...we will be here, sharing stories, offering tips, seeking general info about this or that...you get the idea. I have no $kin in this game, so I will never have any incentive to lie, stretch the truth, etc...I like to hunt so much that I have done things to ensure that I will be able to...I know others that have done the same. Big deal. You're into whatever you're into. Not sure what that is, but I'm sure you're really passionate about it and really good at it. I AM GLAD YOU REMINDED US THAT "YOU HAVE SEEN THIS MOVIE BEFORE"...GO WATCH IT AGAIN...do something, anything. Just leave us alone. You're unwanted around here, frankly, at least by me, in your present iteration. Seriously, you have been spewing your doom and gloom for years now...you know, in my business (investments), there are always some bears around...and you know what? Eventually they will be right, at least for awhile. Like I didn't know that! I thought that stocks and pheasant #'s only went up!!!! Things cycle...I can handle that. Like I said, if you want to fraternize here the way that 99% of us do, please join in. And that doesn't mean that you can't be candid about your thoughts. But if you're not hunting pheasants any longer, why lurk around here? Go find a prairie dog sight, or, a jack rabbit sight, or, a deer hunting sight, or, a turkey hunting sight...go be positive and have some fun. Otherwise, don't waste our time. We are able to read...we know what's going on out there with CRP and bird #'s. But we also know that there is alot of good stuff going on as well, and a heck of a lot of fun will be had this, and in future hunting seasons. You know, some of my best friends-anywhere-are farmers in SD. I go see them in the spring and summer. It is much more than show up and shoot a boatload of birds and go back to whereever and brag it up until next year when I get out the checkbook and show up to whereever the most pheasants are and do it all over again...without a dog? I could at least envision it if I had a dog...but no dog? Sorry about what happened in Tanzania

Sorry sorry, I was just trying to illustrate some comparisons I have observed even though the countries and species are vastly different.

I love the sport atleast as much as you guy's and it hurts to see what is happening. Just wondering what is going to be left of it all.

I appreciate every bit of habitat work you guy's do and practice it myself on my own little piece of heaven here in MO.

Would be very happy and relieved to hear some good news out of USDA such as:

Additional 100,000 acres for SAFE in SD
100,000 acre James River CREP as proposed by PF
General sign up announcement in early 2010.

 

[niceshot]

No question that the loss of CRP hurts...but we knew that (blinding flash of the obvious). I have been out to SD twice this spring/summer, and things are looking really good in the counties where I hunt. What must have really hurt this year is the first week or ten days of June, where it was both wet and 15-20 degrees below normal...imagine that.

benelli-banger, I always appreciate your posts, your enthusiasm is contagious. I would however suggest that the details of the GF&P report indicate that the decline in population is do entirely to winter hen mortality.
Number of hens counted was down 24% and number of broods was also down exactly 24%. I like you have been worried about the cool wet spring but interestingly brood size was down only 5%. Brood size seems to remain incredibly consistent at 6 to 7 chicks year after year, evolution seems miraculous does it not.
Roosters on the other hand, which we actually "need" very few of, were down only 14%. This would indicate we need more and better winter cover, and since nothing compares to a cattail slough, I would suggest we emphasize wetland preservation over Safari's famed CRP. The other obvious conclusion is that we all need to get out and shoot more of those *#@*&# roosters.

 

[benelli-banger]

No question that the loss of CRP hurts...but we knew that (blinding flash of the obvious). I have been out to SD twice this spring/summer, and things are looking really good in the counties where I hunt. What must have really hurt this year is the first week or ten days of June, where it was both wet and 15-20 degrees below normal...imagine that.

benelli-banger, I always appreciate your posts, your enthusiasm is contagious. I would however suggest that the details of the GF&P report indicate that the decline in population is do entirely to winter hen mortality.
Number of hens counted was down 24% and number of broods was also down exactly 24%. I like you have been worried about the cool wet spring but interestingly brood size was down only 5%. Brood size seems to remain incredibly consistent at 6 to 7 chicks year after year, evolution seems miraculous does it not.
Roosters on the other hand, which we actually "need" very few of, were down only 14%. This would indicate we need more and better winter cover, and since nothing compares to a cattail slough, I would suggest we emphasize wetland preservation over Safari's famed CRP. The other obvious conclusion is that we all need to get out and shoot more of those *#@*&# roosters.

Good point...it would be instructive to look at the data after the recent tough winters, like '96-'97. Some similarities, I would presume. Bottom line, a decline in any type of habitat will hurt...severe winter weather will hurt...poor nesting conditions will hurt...cutting hay hurts...predators hurt. Hey, the life of a pheasant is full of risk, always has been, always will. We will certainly see #'s that are much lower than what we have today....and, in time, we will see those #'s improve again...maybe not to 2008 levels, but they will improve in time. Hope we don't have to retest the lows of the mid '70's in the process, however.

 

[landman]

I don't think anyone can forecast the future with certainty. For example in 1976 we had a GF&P's estimate of only 1.4 million birds in South Dakota. I'm sure many projected the demise of pheasant hunting back then based on the low numbers and loss of habitat. But here we are, 33 years later, with around 9 million birds, which I doubt anyone could have predicted back in 1976. We have changes in farming practices, government programs, and weather among other factors that affect pheasant populations from year to year. Therefore some years will be up and some years will be down. The big difference between now and 1976 is that we have a lot of folks and organizations who are working hard at improving and maintaining pheasant habitat in south dakota. I don't think we should throw in the towel and say that pheasant hunting is dead. We simply need to continue our work towards improving habitat and everything will be ok - even 30 years from now.

I want to add that CRP is not dead either. The current farm bill capped CRP enrollment at 32 million acres down from 38 million in the 2002 farm bill. The reason we are losing CRP acres is because the USDA is trying to let some CRP expire to get below the 32 million acres after which they are authorized to maintain the acres at 32 million. Therefore we will see a 15% decline of acres followed by stabilization of acres so we could say that the loss of CRP could account for an average reduction in about 15% of the average pheasant population for the short term. After that, who knows for sure. If we are commited enough to work at improving pheasant habitat then we will have a better than average chance at even better years ahead.

LM

 

[safari]

I don't think anyone can forecast the future with certainty. For example in 1976 we had a GF&P's estimate of only 1.4 million birds in South Dakota. I'm sure many projected the demise of pheasant hunting back then based on the low numbers and loss of habitat. But here we are, 33 years later, with around 9 million birds, which I doubt anyone could have predicted back in 1976. We have changes in farming practices, government programs, and weather among other factors that affect pheasant populations from year to year. Therefore some years will be up and some years will be down. The big difference between now and 1976 is that we have a lot of folks and organizations who are working hard at improving and maintaining pheasant habitat in south dakota. I don't think we should throw in the towel and say that pheasant hunting is dead. We simply need to continue our work towards improving habitat and everything will be ok - even 30 years from now.

I want to add that CRP is not dead either. The current farm bill capped CRP enrollment at 32 million acres down from 38 million in the 2002 farm bill. The reason we are losing CRP acres is because the USDA is trying to let some CRP expire to get below the 32 million acres after which they are authorized to maintain the acres at 32 million. Therefore we will see a 15% decline of acres followed by stabilization of acres so we could say that the loss of CRP could account for an average reduction in about 15% of the average pheasant population for the short term. After that, who knows.

LM

We will be below the 32 million acres in 30 days. Good point. That will leave SD with 1 million acres. What scares me is the contract expiration schedule from 2010 thru 2012.

 

[landman]

No question that the loss of CRP hurts...but we knew that (blinding flash of the obvious). I have been out to SD twice this spring/summer, and things are looking really good in the counties where I hunt. What must have really hurt this year is the first week or ten days of June, where it was both wet and 15-20 degrees below normal...imagine that.

benelli-banger, I always appreciate your posts, your enthusiasm is contagious. I would however suggest that the details of the GF&P report indicate that the decline in population is do entirely to winter hen mortality.
Number of hens counted was down 24% and number of broods was also down exactly 24%. I like you have been worried about the cool wet spring but interestingly brood size was down only 5%. Brood size seems to remain incredibly consistent at 6 to 7 chicks year after year, evolution seems miraculous does it not.
Roosters on the other hand, which we actually "need" very few of, were down only 14%. This would indicate we need more and better winter cover, and since nothing compares to a cattail slough, I would suggest we emphasize wetland preservation over Safari's famed CRP. The other obvious conclusion is that we all need to get out and shoot more of those *#@*&# roosters.

It is irritating to me that the Game and Fish Commission refused to extend the regular season to the end of January a few months ago after hearing recommendations from the department that it won't hurt the pheasant population. In fact, it may have helped improve the population during harsh winters like last winter when roosters are competing with hens for survival. I know that the Commission was bowing to pressures from hunting preserves to end the season early so they will have more customers during late season at the preserves. Then the Commission gives the Preserves five more birds to shoot per day. I hope that the Commission reads the survey results and realize the errors of their ways.

LM

 

[UGUIDE]

They are not going to survive on 9 million birds. As we write these words 9 million birds will not be sustainable next year as we lose another 200,000 acres in 30 days. Next year another.....The next year another......Pretty soon nothing left!!!! And the forces at play that are causing this could care less if there is a pheasant left in SD or anywhere else for that matter!!!

Safari, welcome back. I am putting in 73 acres of Farmable wetlands CRP next year. What are you personally doing to make a difference and slow/prevent/change the "freefall"?????

 

[landman]

We will be below the 32 million acres in 30 days. Good point. That will leave SD with 1 million acres. What scares me is the contract expiration schedule from 2010 thru 2012.

All CRP contracts are for 10 to 15 years so they all have expiration dates. However new CRP signups will replace those that are expiring. I've heard that we could have a general CRP signup as early as next summer. Remember that we have the continous sign-ups that add CRP acres each year but its the General Signups that are used to maintain the level at the authorized 32 million acres.

 

[landman]

bold prediction

I can also forecast the end of pheasants and pheasant hunting.

The experts tell us that a very large meteor hit our planet many years ago, which caused the demise of the dinousour. If this happened once then it will likely happen again and when it does pheasant hunting will likely end.

The experts also tell us that if one of the super volcanoes erupts, like the one at Yellowstone park, it will have a major impact on our planet. They say that Yellowstone erupts every 600,000 years or so and its been that long since the last one. If it erupts before the meteor strikes than that will likely end pheasant hunting.

Then there is the inevitable personal situation - death - which ends pheasant hunting for the individual.

The above are indisputable because those are the facts.

So there you have it. Pheasant hunting will end someday. I hope this puts to rest the debate about whether or not pheasant hunting will end or not.

LM

 

[UGUIDE]

Would be very happy and relieved to hear some good news out of USDA such as:

Additional 100,000 acres for SAFE in SD
100,000 acre James River CREP as proposed by PF
General sign up announcement in early 2010.

Safari, all my 8 pheasant camps re-enrolled their expiring CRP acres this year. To my knowledge 50% of eligible expiring acres were all re-enrolled. All SAFE and CP-37 acres are enrolled and capped.

No new allotments are going to come until rest of expiring acres comes out and does not get re-enrolled or acres drop below exsting caps.

General sign-up will not happen and is a poor method of utilizing marginal resources as is the cropping years method. An new method is need to "farm the best and buffer the rest". Intelligence and communication are needed, not ranting and doomsday.

 

[safari]

Safari, welcome back. I am putting in 73 acres of Farmable wetlands CRP next year. What are you personally doing to make a difference and slow/prevent/change the "freefall"?????

That is great we need a whole lot more landowners like you! THE FWP is about the only continuoius practice that still has acres available in SD.SAFE is full, Duck Nesting is full. Dont know exactly why the FWP is underutilized.

I am sure you all are aware of the upcoming CRP public meetings to be held around the country starting next month? I will try to make the one over in Springfield, IL on the 25th. Everyone needs to get on the USDA website and see if any of the meetings are going to be close enough for you to attend.

I would say out of the gate we as a group need to ask for more continuous acres (SAFE, Duck Nesting, CP-33) in states that have capped out of these programs. We are not yet in a position to request a large general sign up as we will be fairly close to the cap at 30.5 million acres in 30 days.

2nd a 100,000 acre James River CREP as proposed by PF would be a good way to start the healing in an area that has been so devastated by expirations lately.

3 ensure rental rates are competitive with cash rent.

UGuide..how is this for starters?

 

[benelli-banger]

Safari, all my 8 pheasant camps re-enrolled their expiring CRP acres this year. To my knowledge 50% of eligible expiring acres were all re-enrolled. All SAFE and CP-37 acres are enrolled and capped.

No new allotments are going to come until rest of expiring acres comes out and does not get re-enrolled or acres drop below exsting caps.

General sign-up will not happen and is a poor method of utilizing marginal resources as is the cropping years method. An new method is need to "farm the best and buffer the rest". Intelligence and communication are needed, not ranting and doomsday.

Chris--Thanks for what you do...your 8 camps have received their fair share of criiticism by some for taking what could have been accessible private land and making it inaccessible unless one pays. I like what you're doing. Not only is it more affordable than most pay to hunt deals, it is a prime example of how economics and pheasant habitat go hand in hand. Landman, you, too are doing great things...thanks.

 

[McTosh]

Pheasant hunting will always be cyclical dependent on winter weather, spring hatch weather, commodity prices, politics and the resulting Farm Bill. Thankfully it sounds like SD will have plentiful birds this year, ND should have enough. There are a great many folks public and private working hard to keep the pheasant on the landscape along with other wildlife. I will forever be grateful to these folks which of course include the habitat builders on this site. I will stay half full on the season prospects and the future, I simply love it too much to take any other stance. Join Pheasants Forever and Ducks Unlimited, as a group we can influence policy, habitat and our future as hunters, strength in numbers they say.

 

[Flush 'Em Hard Rocky]

SD will always be fine compared to other states. I am curious to see what MN numbers are (hopefully it will come out in the next 2 weeks). The scary thing here is that well over 70% of all CRP is set to expire in the next 4 years here.

 

[Bilbo Baggins]

Look me up in 2011 if you would like to do a hunt or two in SD. Love to have you join me.

Thanks Banger, that is a very generous offer and one I could never refuse. Good luck, enjoy each day of the upcoming season and stay safe! See you in 2011...

 

[UGUIDE]

That is great we need a whole lot more landowners like you! THE FWP is about the only continuoius practice that still has acres available in SD.SAFE is full, Duck Nesting is full. Dont know exactly why the FWP is underutilized.

I am sure you all are aware of the upcoming CRP public meetings to be held around the country starting next month? I will try to make the one over in Springfield, IL on the 25th. Everyone needs to get on the USDA website and see if any of the meetings are going to be close enough for you to attend.

I would say out of the gate we as a group need to ask for more continuous acres (SAFE, Duck Nesting, CP-33) in states that have capped out of these programs. We are not yet in a position to request a large general sign up as we will be fairly close to the cap at 30.5 million acres in 30 days.

2nd a 100,000 acre James River CREP as proposed by PF would be a good way to start the healing in an area that has been so devastated by expirations lately.

3 ensure rental rates are competitive with cash rent.

UGuide..how is this for starters?

Safari, it's a start but money and time are the biggest change agents. I am glad to hear you are a support and are planning to go to your local CRP meeting. I am planning on attending the Morrhead MN meeting. I should post the meeting info in the Habitat section for thoe interested in their local meetings.

 

[UGUIDE]

Chris--Thanks for what you do...your 8 camps have received their fair share of criiticism by some for taking what could have been accessible private land and making it inaccessible unless one pays. I like what you're doing. Not only is it more affordable than most pay to hunt deals, it is a prime example of how economics and pheasant habitat go hand in hand. Landman, you, too are doing great things...thanks.

Banger, thanks, it is exciting to realize the goal of being able to create a system that has actually motivated farmers to change their behavior and farming practices towards sportsmen and farming for pheasants. 1 guy sold all his cows and now he has 5 quarters of pasture that are not grazed and look like CRP.

 

[benelli-banger]

Safari, you ought to put a group together and go hunt UGUIDE's stuff...you could actually hunt, and also, know that you're doing something constructive about the problem that you are so quick to point out to the world. Just a thought...

 

[safari]

Safari, you ought to put a group together and go hunt UGUIDE's stuff...you could actually hunt, and also, know that you're doing something constructive about the problem that you are so quick to point out to the world. Just a thought...

Dont be fooled I have places to go should I choose. Places that stood and still stand with the best. What would bother me more than anything would be having to drive past and bear witness to the ruins I spoken so passionately about here today.

 

[benelli-banger]

Dont be fooled I have places to go should I choose. Places that stood and still stand with the best. What would bother me more than anything would be having to drive past and bear witness to the ruins I spoken so passionately about here today.

I understand...I know you have places to go if you would so choose. Sorry for my strong remarks earlier, and I mean that. Hope all is well in Missouri and that you have some good fun planned this fall.