Pheasant population decline theory

R

RuttCrazed

New member
I was talking with some farmers out west and they thought that maybe the decline in pheasants had something to do with the no till-drill wheat farming practices. In years past the farmers would not spray the wheat for weeds, because they planned on just plowing it under at the end of the season, now they spray up to 4 times (during the nesting season) because they are not plowing the weeds under anymore, they are drilling in the next crop right on top of it. Their theory was that the herbicides were too harsh on the hens and eggs, what do you think?

Most farmers in our area started this practice about 8 years ago and the numbers line up pretty well to the decline.

Rut
 
I noticed several things when I was out in Western KS last week. Almost no wheat or Milo stubble. Most waterways are hayed. Then the harvest of crops there is nothing left from the combine. Just a few things I saw.

Greatlawn
 
I think that when we went away from strip-farming on the great plains, everything else is a contributory factor. I assume we strip away the population with the dry years, the pesticides, cutting hay early on. Those 30' erosion controls were golden!
 
Its probably a combination of all of the above plus just cleaner, road-edge farming practices. Fewer shelter belts, hedge rows, plumb thickets, weedy road ditches, etc. We have put in 60-90' weed/grass mix CRP buffers around every production field. We started doing that about 6 years ago and have noticed a significant increase in birds. The game sign in those buffers is nothing but staggering.....roosts, droppings, deer beds, etc, etc, etc. Its funny to be sitting near one while deer hunting and hear the pheasants moving around in them....sounds like a herd of elephants walking down the buffer!

I've heard some farmers suggest that turkey's are eating pheasant eggs because the increase in turkey's has happened at about the same time as the decrease in pheasants/quail. I find that pretty darned far fetched. Coons, skunks and possums might eat quite a few but I hardly think turkey's are raiding the nests.

Chris
 
CRP loss and drought are the main contributing factors in the pheasant decline in the last three years in Kansas in my opinion. I believe numbers will come back. I hear a lot of doom and gloom on this website yet my friends and I are still enjoying success in multiple states this year including Kansas. The birds are still out there, we just need some favorable weather for nesting and brood survival.
 
no cover

as i drive from one spot to another, sometimes miles away, i look out the window and see no place for a pheasant or anything else for that matter, to hide. the fields are bare, seems like it would be easy for the state to take an interest and ban and or quit mowing the ditches and roadsides thereby eliminating the last bit of possible cover left. kansas could also make it legal to hunt roadsides and railway right of ways but they seem to be intent on sitting on their butts and do nothing to either help the hunter or the wildlife.

cheers
 
No till wheat farming is definitely impacting pheasants IMHO. Before no-till there were summer fallow fields with weeds and they were the best hunting.
 
I tell guys at work or wherever they say turkeys eat thenm or kill them I say bullsh^$% that has nothing to do with it!!! This is what I think not pheasants but quail. Quail don't like the really really thick crp switchgrass stuff they like the thin weeds where they can move around run play chase and escape things that are after them they like cover but open kinda the thick stuff predators and stuff can ambush them along with not being comfortable with what they like am I on the right path here ? t
Tell me if I am full of sh^%$ you wont hurt my feelings:D
 
only a pointer said:
I tell guys at work or wherever they say turkeys eat thenm or kill them I say bullsh^$% that has nothing to do with it!!! This is what I think not pheasants but quail. Quail don't like the really really thick crp switchgrass stuff they like the thin weeds where they can move around run play chase and escape things that are after them they like cover but open kinda the thick stuff predators and stuff can ambush them along with not being comfortable with what they like am I on the right path here ? t
Tell me if I am full of sh^%$ you wont hurt my feelings:D
Click to expand...

The only thing you've ever posted I agree with 100%. :laugh:
I don't know S either, but this would be my opinion on quail.

I think everybody made valid points there. Of all the factors mentioned, the drought is the big multiplier, IMO. All those things probably hurt the bird population, but it's the drought that really magnifies the effect.
 
Heres another thing to ponder. Why arent the public lands with a terrific mix of grains, weeds , shelterbelts , crp more priductive than they are?
I think all the weather/drought factors mentioned are on the money as well as differences in farming practices. I know on a couple big farms I had permission to hunt on were the first to start baling up all the stubble as well as waterways to feed cattle and they basically dried up as far as birds too. The less managed and ignored land was about the only thing with birds. We started hunting quail in the sand hills and sage brush. Those old weedy wheat fields had amazing amounts of pheasants in them.
 
Everyone has touched on part of it, except the turkey bull cr-p. The reason turkey have increased and pheasants and quail have decreased are linked just as are the reasons public lands are not so productive. It's a combination of plant succession and land use. Turkeys have a broader adaptive niche than either pheasants or quail. They thrive in higher successional plant communities and, therefore, become more dominant on the landscape as more former low successional habitats become forested and leave the upland gamebird adaptive niche. If you look at MOST of the public lands in Kansas, they are generally centered on a riparian corridor or surround a reservoir. If you would look at aerial photos of those acres or any acres you've seen degrade over the years, what you would see is an increase in woody habitat, loss of edge, increase in field size, change in crop varieties, and decrease in weedy/waste cover. If you look more micro, you'll see introduced grasses, cool-season waterways, shorter wheat varieties, more soybeans, and a complete swap in the corn vs milo belt. CRP gave us a boost for awhile, but many of those acres were not planted to upland mixes, many have failed to be managed, and the original intent of the program was based on cattle seeding mixes, not gamebird. If you add to that the fact the government allows haying and grazing in exactly the years when the bird populations need those acres the most, and we have managed to make the low years much lower. As long as we have farmers maximizing profit by farming every available acre and don't have a program to induce them to idle unproductive land, we are in for a lower population. Further, as long as we have farmers owning livestock and NOT managing their grazing in a sustainable fashion, our quail are going to suffer. The same can be said for prairie chickens. My 2 cents!
 
adapting

when i first came to colorado for college, a friend of mine owned a farm in pheasant country and there were birds everywhere, that was the 60's in n.e. colorado. true, some pheasants hung around the door yard, esp. the hens and their babies but you could hardly call them friendly or get close to them. not so with turkey. when i first got here, turkeys for the most part, weren't, same for much of w. kansas. took me years of pheasant hunting out there to see my first one and now on any given day, they outnumber pheasants by a large margin. they have adapted quite well and in many places so well that the farmers can't even chase them out of their yards, can't have a garden or plants, shooting bullets over their heads helps for awhile. they are bold in their feeding in the open where as pheasants aren't and seem far better at surviving in more types of habitat than pheasants. don't think they compete all that much but whatever, they are going one way and the pheasants the other.

cheers
 
I've never had a covey of quail follow me around the yard to eat bugs while I'm mowing. But turkeys... They get pretty bold when there is an easy meal.
 
clattin said:
its probably a combination of all of the above plus just cleaner, road-edge farming practices. Fewer shelter belts, hedge rows, plumb thickets, weedy road ditches, etc. We have put in 60-90' weed/grass mix crp buffers around every production field. We started doing that about 6 years ago and have noticed a significant increase in birds. The game sign in those buffers is nothing but staggering.....roosts, droppings, deer beds, etc, etc, etc. Its funny to be sitting near one while deer hunting and hear the pheasants moving around in them....sounds like a herd of elephants walking down the buffer!

I've heard some farmers suggest that turkey's are eating pheasant eggs because the increase in turkey's has happened at about the same time as the decrease in pheasants/quail. I find that pretty darned far fetched. Coons, skunks and possums might eat quite a few but i hardly think turkey's are raiding the nests.

Chris
Click to expand...
turkeys eating quail and pheasants is a urban mith. There's no truth or study tha proves that they do. Turkeys aren't carnivores.
 
Yes they are carnivores! so are pheasants and quail too! I doubt any circumstance where zombie turkeys are impacting the quail population, but it would be better to manage for quail, and let the turkeys take care of themselves!:thumbsup: In my opinion. But the onslaught on living bugs is outrageous with all game birds except doves and pigeons, they need the energy, for feathers, muscles for flight, fast, can't get it from plants. If a turkey happens across a nest of shiny eggs in a quail nest, it will pick at it, Aldo Leopold said that, Sand County Almanac, maybe where this has become the origination of the theory. Habitat, Habitat, Habitat, and some decent weather!
 
oldandnew said:
Yes they are carnivores! so are pheasants and quail too! I doubt any circumstance where zombie turkeys are impacting the quail population, but it would be better to manage for quail, and let the turkeys take care of themselves!:thumbsup: In my opinion. But the onslaught on living bugs is outrageous with all game birds except doves and pigeons, they need the energy, for feathers, muscles for flight, fast, can't get it from plants. If a turkey happens across a nest of shiny eggs in a quail nest, it will pick at it, Aldo Leopold said that, Sand County Almanac, maybe where this has become the origination of the theory. Habitat, Habitat, Habitat, and some decent weather!
Click to expand...

I would agree with all of what you said. Turkey are considered omnivores(they eat everything).
 
Like most of what's been said, I think it's a combination of several factors. I think the herbicides play a larger role than most people seem to think. I've also wondered if the increase in birds of prey since the 60's may be another factor.
 
birds of prey

ness said:
Like most of what's been said, I think it's a combination of several factors. I think the herbicides play a larger role than most people seem to think. I've also wondered if the increase in birds of prey since the 60's may be another factor.
Click to expand...

birds of prey are a tough thing to talk about but there surely are a lot of them flying around out there and they do eat stuff besides mice and snakes. less cover, the easier the hunting for them and they do kill pheasant adults and love quail, the answer still comes down to habitat for the most part and a very large part of that comes down to farming practices esp. in kansas and iowa, and neb. and colorado.
 
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