I have noticed a theme throughout the forum in the last year, and at the risk of offending all sides, I think it should be addressed. We seem to have strong feelings about being discouraging even hostile, to non-resident hunters. I direct you to posts on the Kansas, Iowa, and North Dakota forums, just to name the most recent. The theme seems to be we don't have enough birds or open "public access", grounds or birds to share with the non-resident hunters. Complaints center on crowding, and it's related issue pay to hunt or leasing. So a guy comes to hunt and pays to lease ground, or day hunt, he's a sinner because he encourages farmers and ranchers to lease ground rather than let everyone hunt free, or he's villianized because he "crowds" public ground offending the somehow superior rights of the state resident hunters. Best example so far is an Iowa discussion about limiting non-residents, while at the same time on the Kansas board a guy from Iowa is looking for input to hunt in Kansas! Quail hunters, and ruffed grouse hunting has always been a clanish sport, ( maybe cultish), but pheasant hunting was a more the merrier type event. Now we accuse anyone new here who asks for advice,of wanting GPS coordinates to our personal hotspots. We are loosing hunters faster than birds, God forbid some rookie blunders into our little fiefdom and shoots, or scares a bird or two, becomes a devotee, and a life long pro hunting voter, and financial conservation supporter. I don't advocate you give specific directions, though I have come close in PM's, But general area advice, county wise, or area of a state? We could be a little more welcoming. I've reached the stage where the legacy of the sport that I leave behind is superior in my thoughts to the harvest of any particular bird, on any particular day or during any particular season. When I'm gone, or drolling in the nursing home, all I have left is the knowledge and experience I passed on, even to a complete stranger, that might, in some small way, encourage the continuation of the sport I love. In my opinion, we need to take a longer view.
Pheasant Hunters Inclusive or Exclusive
- Thread starter oldandnew
- Start date
BritChaser
Well-known member
Good Points
I think most on this forum are sharing honest information while ignoring or perhaps misleading the "phishers," people who want a hunting dossier handed to them. Anyone who posts on this forum has access to the internet and, consequently, can do their own research to get many of their questions answered. Like me perhaps, some of us have put years of effort, money, and time into developing their pheasant hunting privileges and knowledge. Like me, I would guess that most of us share that treasure with others -- good friends or family whom we invite to hunt with us even though they did nothing to develop the hunting privileges we have. Lately, there have been discouraging posts about hunting in Kansas and for good reason: the drought has had an extreme adverse impact on the bird hunting prospects for the majority of the Kansas pheasant range. Therefore, it is legitimate for Kansas forum posters to recommend that hunters try another state this year.
I think most on this forum are sharing honest information while ignoring or perhaps misleading the "phishers," people who want a hunting dossier handed to them. Anyone who posts on this forum has access to the internet and, consequently, can do their own research to get many of their questions answered. Like me perhaps, some of us have put years of effort, money, and time into developing their pheasant hunting privileges and knowledge. Like me, I would guess that most of us share that treasure with others -- good friends or family whom we invite to hunt with us even though they did nothing to develop the hunting privileges we have. Lately, there have been discouraging posts about hunting in Kansas and for good reason: the drought has had an extreme adverse impact on the bird hunting prospects for the majority of the Kansas pheasant range. Therefore, it is legitimate for Kansas forum posters to recommend that hunters try another state this year.
ehudgens
Active member
Kind of funny, but I grew up in downstate Illinois, and spent plenty of time in my youth complaing about people from Chicago coming into our area and hunting. Well, years later now I am one of those people from Chicago who come down to hunt haha.
I have also traveled to South Dakota for 16 straight years to hunt pheasants. Fortunately, I don't have to hunt public land and have hunted with the same outfitter for the entire 16 years. Time is so important to me, that I would rather spend the money rather than knock on doors, and fight for good public hunting.
I will say, I have found the people of South Dakota to be very hospitable to out of state hunters. I still love to go to my hometown in Illinois to hunt, but I swear I can see more birds in 1 day in South Dakota than I will in the entire season in IL.
I have also traveled to South Dakota for 16 straight years to hunt pheasants. Fortunately, I don't have to hunt public land and have hunted with the same outfitter for the entire 16 years. Time is so important to me, that I would rather spend the money rather than knock on doors, and fight for good public hunting.
I will say, I have found the people of South Dakota to be very hospitable to out of state hunters. I still love to go to my hometown in Illinois to hunt, but I swear I can see more birds in 1 day in South Dakota than I will in the entire season in IL.
nstric
New member
Well written!
I'm the Iowa resident that posted within the Kansas forum, and while I've not taken offense to the contribution within as much as others have, we all could use a reminder that we're on the same team.
I guide charitable pheasant hunts here in Iowa, on behalf of PF, United Way, etc. and more often than not am hosting non-residents. From California to Illinois, I see all types of hunters, and welcome every one of them as I would a good buddy. Friendships have even spawned from such hunts.
"And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased."
I'm the Iowa resident that posted within the Kansas forum, and while I've not taken offense to the contribution within as much as others have, we all could use a reminder that we're on the same team.
I guide charitable pheasant hunts here in Iowa, on behalf of PF, United Way, etc. and more often than not am hosting non-residents. From California to Illinois, I see all types of hunters, and welcome every one of them as I would a good buddy. Friendships have even spawned from such hunts.
"And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased."
henhenROOSTER!!!
New member
EXCELLENT THREAD & I vote INCLUSIVE & friendly w/o the slam-dunk GPS gimmes!!! :10sign:
I have lived on both sides of the fence during my decades of hunting & with some good/legit reason for both arguments (there are abusers on both sides) - but at the end of the day, not happy/comfortable at all guarding from all others on the dark-side - I remember all my own times of needing a little helping-hand as a newbie to a particular game species, being a guy faraway in a totally new/unfamiliar area and/or just plain short on time due work & family responsibilities & needing to make the most of my very limited "hunting" opportunities instead of spending it all on scouting or blind hail-mary shooting in the dark.
I say keep it INCLUSIVE & friendly!!! Hoarding all to oneself & discouraging/running everyone else off is simply a slow-cutting of one's own throat in the long run...Well said, oldandnew!!! :cheers:
I have lived on both sides of the fence during my decades of hunting & with some good/legit reason for both arguments (there are abusers on both sides) - but at the end of the day, not happy/comfortable at all guarding from all others on the dark-side - I remember all my own times of needing a little helping-hand as a newbie to a particular game species, being a guy faraway in a totally new/unfamiliar area and/or just plain short on time due work & family responsibilities & needing to make the most of my very limited "hunting" opportunities instead of spending it all on scouting or blind hail-mary shooting in the dark.
I say keep it INCLUSIVE & friendly!!! Hoarding all to oneself & discouraging/running everyone else off is simply a slow-cutting of one's own throat in the long run...Well said, oldandnew!!! :cheers:
kansasbrittany
Banned
Another great post from O&N! Very insightful, thanks for sharing:thumbsup: Oh, and I agree with everything said.
SDJIM
New member
Private Land
Well said O&N. For years I was the outsider and had to hunt public or go knocking on doors. 10 years ago I married into a 1000 acres of prime bird ground and my wife encouraged me to develope some of it for wildlife, this I have done and it has worked well.
I have always tried to be giving to others as far as hunting goes, but the last several years I have really opened up and this year have numerious hunters coming to hunt wild SD birds including people on this forum. I'm not gett'n any younger and enjoy watching others enjoy a good day afield and hope to make some new friends.
My motto is " I have the land, you bring the good dogs and we can hunt together":cheers:
Well said O&N. For years I was the outsider and had to hunt public or go knocking on doors. 10 years ago I married into a 1000 acres of prime bird ground and my wife encouraged me to develope some of it for wildlife, this I have done and it has worked well.
I have always tried to be giving to others as far as hunting goes, but the last several years I have really opened up and this year have numerious hunters coming to hunt wild SD birds including people on this forum. I'm not gett'n any younger and enjoy watching others enjoy a good day afield and hope to make some new friends.
My motto is " I have the land, you bring the good dogs and we can hunt together":cheers:
kansasbrittany
Banned
That is very generous of you Sir! I hope you are rewarded/satisfied with your chosen partners
In addition to your good dogs "requirement", you should at least put in a request for dinner
nstric
New member
That is very generous of you Sir! I hope you are rewarded/satisfied with your chosen partners
x2 SDJIM! Dinner every night might be most appropriate!
When I guide for others, they're almost always looking to buy/make dinner here, purchase a beverage there, etc. Not a bad deal. :cheers:
1pheas4
Moderator
I've said this a few times in the past and I'll say it again; non-resident hunters contribute to an increase in public land, game production, and a "pro-hunting" gov't.
When a state's gov't sees large amounts of income flowing in from non-resident hunters they see rainbows and blue skys. They want more. To get more, they cater to out-of-state hunters by improving public lands, expanding public hunting opportunities, game #'s, and so on.
Here in Illinois we have an underfunded Dept. of Nat'l Resources. They are underfunded in part because Illinois has not catered to non-res hunters.
At the same time we don't have public hunting opportunities to lure non-res hunters in. So we wait and wait and wait and nothing happens because our Gov't for what ever reason will not make the investment, or, maybe we just haven't been vocal enough. God knows the anti-hunting powers within Chicago have made their voices heard to our politicians.
Those who have great hunting opportunities, count your blessings. At times, you may have to put up with of out-of-state orange, but the alternative is what we have here in Illinois. Trust me, it's not pretty and very frustrating.
For me, I love to see non-resident hunters. That is, the few we get around here.:cheers:
When a state's gov't sees large amounts of income flowing in from non-resident hunters they see rainbows and blue skys.
They want more. To get more, they cater to out-of-state hunters by improving public lands, expanding public hunting opportunities, game #'s, and so on. Here in Illinois we have an underfunded Dept. of Nat'l Resources. They are underfunded in part because Illinois has not catered to non-res hunters.
At the same time we don't have public hunting opportunities to lure non-res hunters in. So we wait and wait and wait and nothing happens because our Gov't for what ever reason will not make the investment, or, maybe we just haven't been vocal enough. God knows the anti-hunting powers within Chicago have made their voices heard to our politicians.
Those who have great hunting opportunities, count your blessings.
At times, you may have to put up with of out-of-state orange, but the alternative is what we have here in Illinois. Trust me, it's not pretty and very frustrating. For me, I love to see non-resident hunters. That is, the few we get around here.:cheers:
pheasantaddict
New member
Alright, you can come hunt in Iowa, but I'm going somewhere else.
SetterNut
New member
I think that the situation in KS is a little different than most years. Last year we had very good numbers of birds, we also had a crazy larger number of hunters.
So we are coming into a hunting season that is going to have greatly reduced bird numbers. What the truth is, if someone is expecting a normal to good year in most of the state of KS, they are not going to find it. Just as the KDWP posted there will be some good spots, but not like last year.
That is the situation. We don't do people favors by telling them less than the true situation.
I have several out of state BB members that are coming to hunt with me. I am going to do my best to get them in birds. But it is going to be a tougher deal this year than last.
So we are coming into a hunting season that is going to have greatly reduced bird numbers. What the truth is, if someone is expecting a normal to good year in most of the state of KS, they are not going to find it. Just as the KDWP posted there will be some good spots, but not like last year.
That is the situation. We don't do people favors by telling them less than the true situation.
I have several out of state BB members that are coming to hunt with me. I am going to do my best to get them in birds. But it is going to be a tougher deal this year than last.
I'm not referring in the original post about the conditions this year or expectations. I'm referring to many posts from last year in which there was a outright resentment toward new and or non-residents on the Kansas and other forums, this during a great year, again complaints of deer hunters and leases, bird hunters and leases, evil of leases in general, overcrowding of WIHA's mostly attributed to non-residents. This can be seen with a little browsing, but the truth is if you spend anytime here on this site you already know. Just don't want the discussion to get off track as a discussion of low bird numbers and bad weather. This has nothing to with a welcoming attitude and only serves as a distraction at best, or a justification at worst. Yes, conditions are going to limit bird hunting in a lot of states, if I were new to this, I might either take up a different sport, and never look back. As it is I've seen this before, you don't have to try to limit numbers, when it becomes a low reward activity they will come once and never come back, including a lot us here on this site. Ask me, I live in Missouri, we have about 16,000 bird hunters left, down from 180,000 in 1980. Consequently we have zero political clout, limited economic clout, in short a dying breed. At one time the number of quail harvested in Missouri dwarfed the Kansas harvest, and everyone elses, even Texas. One time 4,000,000 birds a year. It wasn't the number of bird hunters that destroyed our quail. It was habitat destruction, and our loss of influence to do anything about it. The out of state bird hunters don't come here anymore, and we are poorer for it. Right now it's Iowa choking it's last gasp. I bet there won't be handful of out of staters there this year, and a lot of previous resident "die hards" will hang up their guns and sell their dogs, or hunt ducks. When we start to apply litmus tests to who should or shouldn't be allowed in the "club" and hunt in a particular state. We could start with all non-residents, and continue swiftly to those not actually born in the state, despite their "occupation" currently, that ought to weed out a whole bunch of Johnson County, Kansans. Or maybe you have to have paid a minimum$5000 in Kansas taxes to use WIHA. Maybe raise the resident license fee to $500 and the non-res to $1500.00 to use WIHA. That ought to make the exclusionists happy. As far as the offer to hunt Iowa.... no thanks, I can take a walk in the birdless billiard table park with a dog right here!
SetterNut
New member
I have not been on this site that long, but I can see where there could be some in state people unhappy with the number of out of state hunters last season. It was many more than in past years.
One of the things that would help the number of people hunting is if some of the other states would make progress in access programs and bird numbers.
There are many people that can't afford to drive hundreds of miles to go bird hunting. Can you imagine how many people have quit hunting in OH, PA over the years now that the pheasant numbers are so low year after year.
The out of state hunters are important to the small KS towns. They need the money, and I support that. But lets see some activity in some of the other areas of the country. I would love to go on a grouse, woodcock, pheasant hunt in a place like OH or PA. Then I would be the out of stater.
One of the things that would help the number of people hunting is if some of the other states would make progress in access programs and bird numbers.
There are many people that can't afford to drive hundreds of miles to go bird hunting. Can you imagine how many people have quit hunting in OH, PA over the years now that the pheasant numbers are so low year after year.
The out of state hunters are important to the small KS towns. They need the money, and I support that. But lets see some activity in some of the other areas of the country. I would love to go on a grouse, woodcock, pheasant hunt in a place like OH or PA. Then I would be the out of stater.
kansasbrittany
Banned
I eluded to this very thing in a post on the IA board. Splitting up some of the pheasant pressure amongst IA, KS, SD, and NE would be great. States like PA and OH could get some of my $ if I thought I could get on some WIHA and shoot a grouse
I see why KS is such a popular destination. I don't see other states giving much of an effort toward gleaning a portion of this available income.Downtown Bang!
Member
At work so I don't have time to read all responses to the thread but oldandnew has clearly defined the biggest issue facing the long-term health of our sport. That being the pervasiveness of surface thinkers who lack vision. Individuals who view the pie as finite and can only focus on carving out and hoarding their little peice of it while the sport dies around them.
Growing the sport and creating a strong conservation ethic with a long-term view is the best chance for survival. A culture of inclusion and a willingness to mentor all newcomers must be a central theme in acheiving that goal.
Hunting (upland in particular) and conservation in general needs financial resources and political clout to overcome the constant barrage of short-term economic and market pressures. That will not get done if participation shrinks and the pie-is-finite thinkers prevail.
At one time I viewed these boards as having potential to foster inclusion but the willingness of many individuals to make the environment uncivil usually prevents it.
DB
nstric
New member
Very, very well said!
kansasbrittany
Banned
BritChaser
Well-known member
You're a good man, sir.