Need Help with Puppy Pointing

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Dami0101

New member
I have a 5 month old Small Munsterlander, my first dog, and I'm trying to introduce her to the idea of pointing, so I watched some youtube videos and picked up some pheasant wings and tied one to a fishing pole. I'm not expecting her to be pointing it right away, but so far I can't get her to stop chasing the feather, so we end up spending 15 minutes with her just running around in circles barking trying to grab the wing. I've clearly missed something in my research, so where do I start? She's only met one bird so far, a duck, but she goes off to gun and bird intro in two weeks if that makes a difference.
 
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it will take time for your pup to figure out what he/she is supposed to do....the wing is a game of teasing, just don't let her catch it, soon the pup will stop chasing and point the wing. It might only be briefly, but praise the heck out of her when it does happen. It is all instinctual for the pup and the light will go on and once it does t,hen it gets really fun. I'm no expert just my thoughts and observations from my own training. Good luck and keeps us posted.
 
Dami0101 said:
I have a 5 month old Small Munsterlander, my first dog, and I'm trying to introduce her to the idea of pointing, so I watched some youtube videos and picked up some pheasant wings and tied one to a fishing pole. I'm not expecting her to be pointing it right away, but so far I can't get her to stop chasing the feather, so we end up spending 15 minutes with her just running around in circles barking trying to grab the wing. I've clearly missed something in my research, so where do I start? She's only met one bird so far, a duck, but she goes off to gun and bird intro in two weeks if that makes a difference.
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Not sure intro. to birds includes pointing, unless you have discussed this with the trainer. Where are you sending your dog?

My past experience, with three dogs at "puppy school" - trainer introduces pigeons, perhaps chuckers and fires over them. All fun and games, little instruction.

Fine art of pointing may come in the second phase/school...others will probably weigh in on this!
Good Luck!
 
Yeah I wasn't expecting her to come back pointing, just thought with more exposure to birds she might be more used to the wing and thus not just try and grab it.

I'm sending her to Herz und Seele's in Dalbo, MN, they are a small operation but they breed and train large munsterlanders and so are very familiar with the versatile nature of the small munsterlander.
 
Keep pulling the wing up and out of sight. Eventually he will try to sneak up on it. This will put him in stealth mode, soon he will point it. Any movement at all on the pups part, pull the wing up and out. When they do finally point it at a distance, I pull the wing toward them and just over their head. Sometimes I let them catch it after they have pointed it for a bit, kind of as a reward. Then they understand that they have to point and stay on point to get the reward. It also teaches them that if they move, the bird (wing) will bust and go away. But until they point, its a game of keep away. This exercise isn't really that important as far as the rest of the training goes. All it does is give you an idea early of what your dog will look like on point. Which is something everyone wants to see I guess.
 
Pointing instinct obviously varies dog to dog. I just got a gsp that
immediately pointed a wing on a fishing pole line at 8 weeks. Others take
some patient work as you are finding out. Hope the dog works out. We are
all usually stuck as we form a pretty quick bond!
 
Dami0101 said:
...I'm trying to introduce her to the idea of pointing, so I watched some youtube videos and picked up some pheasant wings and tied one to a fishing pole. I'm not expecting her to be pointing it right away, but so far I can't get her to stop chasing the feather....
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Did you have her watch the videos with you?? :D

This is why I stick to flushers. Hope you have great luck w/ her! My neighbor has a couple Munsterlanders (large) & they're super dogs!
 
I usually start the wing as soon as I get the pup. By the time they are 5 months old, they know they cannot catch the wing. If you start at 5 months, it will be more difficult. I would work in the whoa command. I wouldn't be too concerned. The wing drill is to see if 8 week old pups have natural instincts and to learn the whoa command.
 
My honest suggestion, do away with the wing on a string and wait for the trainer to introduce birds properly. There isn't a professional trainer I know that uses a wing on a string to teach pointing. It is best done with live birds and them using their nose, not their eyes.
 
throw that thing away asap, a wing on a string encourages sight pointing , bird crowding and chasing the exact opposite of what you want..... its a parlor trick and of no use

find some live birds

and you teach whoa in the yard away from birds its an obedience command
 
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bobman said:
throw that thing away asap, a wing on a string encourages sight pointing , bird crowding and chasing the exact opposite of what you want..... its a parlor trick and of no use

find some live birds

and you teach whoa in the yard away from birds its an obedience command
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Not familiar with "bird crowding." Can you elaborate a bit. Thanks
 
a wing on a string encourages sight pointing which in turn leads a pup to thinking it should be able to see the bird instead of locking up instantly when it hits the scent cone

so the pup creeps toward the bird "crowds the bird" trying to see it, and accidentally flushes it


this is the exact opposite of what you want the pup to learn
 
I always used a wing on a fishing pole until guys said it was bad. The dogs I didn't use a wing on a pole were not as good as the others.
 
Crossing shot said:
I always used a wing on a fishing pole until guys said it was bad. The dogs I didn't use a wing on a pole were not as good as the others.
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Have used pheasant wings tied to a training dummy. This can be used for "hide the dummy" games in the house or for retrieving purposes later on.

I recall R. Wolter using a wing on a pole in one of his books; now I'm dating myself!

My dogs returned from "puppy school" with a strong prey drive. Would assume your dog would be fired-up and show strong interest in wings, after these sessions...
 
bobman said:
a wing on a string encourages sight pointing which in turn leads a pup to thinking it should be able to see the bird instead of locking up instantly when it hits the scent cone

so the pup creeps toward the bird "crowds the bird" trying to see it, and accidentally flushes it


this is the exact opposite of what you want the pup to learn
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Depends on your approach and type of dog. Mine freeze on bird sight. They also point on scent like they are supposed to. Started with a wing. But I take mine dove hunting too, sometimes hunt for duck. When they spot one in the sky they freeze. Well, my older two do. The little one doesn't yet. If they see a bird on the ground in sight, they also freeze. Doesn't happen very often in the wild but quite a bit on pen raised birds. It's not gonna hurt to have your dog point on scent contact and sight contact. Its pretty cool to see your dog bringing a dove back and all of a sudden she hunkers down on her belly watching a live one fly in with a dead one in her mouth.
 
PheasantWhisperer said:
Depends on your approach and type of dog. Mine freeze on bird sight. They also point on scent like they are supposed to. Started with a wing. But I take mine dove hunting too, sometimes hunt for duck. When they spot one in the sky they freeze. Well, my older two do. The little one doesn't yet. If they see a bird on the ground in sight, they also freeze. Doesn't happen very often in the wild but quite a bit on pen raised birds. It's not gonna hurt to have your dog point on scent contact and sight contact. Its pretty cool to see your dog bringing a dove back and all of a sudden she hunkers down on her belly watching a live one fly in with a dead one in her mouth.
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I can relate to this post...my Golden will freeze if he sees a bird or smells one deep in the bush. Does the same with rabbits in the yard, as much as I try to discourage this practice.

And, of course, points a porcupine. I think he learned his lesson two seasons ago, when he got a mouthful!
 
Jeremy and Bobman have it right. Lose the wing. You want your dog to scent point. Get a live pigeon, put pup on a check chord, and work him into the scent cone from 90 degrees from the wind. If he doesn't point, work him on through the field as if nothing happened. You might mist the bird with some water before starting the pup to amplify the scent. SM's are a versatile breed, so this one's pointing instinct may not be as great and will need developed. If you can get a bird launcher, popping birds that he doesn't point will help develop his prey drive and should lead more quickly to a point. You don't hunt for bird wings, so why train for bird wings. Give him the real deal and you won't create problems that have been mentioned that can occur with the sight pointing. Good question!
 
Prairie Drifter said:
Jeremy and Bobman have it right. Lose the wing. You want your dog to scent point. Get a live pigeon, put pup on a check chord, and work him into the scent cone from 90 degrees from the wind. If he doesn't point, work him on through the field as if nothing happened. You might mist the bird with some water before starting the pup to amplify the scent. SM's are a versatile breed, so this one's pointing instinct may not be as great and will need developed. If you can get a bird launcher, popping birds that he doesn't point will help develop his prey drive and should lead more quickly to a point. You don't hunt for bird wings, so why train for bird wings. Give him the real deal and you won't create problems that have been mentioned that can occur with the sight pointing. Good question!
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+1. Wing on a string is a trick to be recorded by video to show your buddies and brag. Birds make a bird dog.
 
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