Might be a bismuth shortage.

I'm a sucker for new things so I bought 200 rounds of Boss 28ga copper last week. They even charge for putting it in 25 round boxes so it came in a single box with a large, heavy bag to carry it in. Cute but not that practical. I suspect it will shoot fine, pretty much like the bismuth I already load, but at least I have something new to play with.
 
It is on the USFWS list of approved shot materials. I believe all States adopt the USFWS approvals. It does also list several coatings for copper shot. Hopefully BOSS has been working with the Feds as they develop their copper shot.
 
Don't quote me on this. Don't quote me on this.

My best guess, from reading some of the online information, is that Boss is waiting for their field testing device to be approved by the feds. Once approved, then it is available to law enforcement, so the shot can be used. It sounds like Epic Shotshells is playing the same waiting game. The government shutdown is adding to the delays. The feds have the Boss device in their hands, but I believe they can't proceed during the shutdown.

My best guess is we are counting on conservation officers to be understanding if they check us with copper shot before that device is available. If they are the Barney Fife type, could be ugly. If they are thoughtful and understand bismuth is pretty much gone and steel sucks and tungsten isn't cost effective for most people, and we are trying to do the right thing by shooting copper, which is more expensive than steel, then not any ugly situation.

My best guess is the Epic Shotshells guy is counting on clear hulls to somehow work with an officer using regular UV lights to see the corrosion inhibiting powder glow (corrosion inhibited pure copper is what we are talking about here, and what was approved in the past, but nobody brought a testing device to market, nor the shells to market). I don't know why an opaque shell, cut open, and examined with the same uv light, wouldn't be equivalent. Maybe there has been some temporary agreement that Epic Shotshells has with the government for that combo, where they'll just eyeball the copper through the shell and let you go about your business? I don't know.

Best guess is to wait until the testing devices have been approved before using copper on animals, if you want to be 100% in the clear with the law.

Did I mention not to quote me on any of this?
 
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2point said:
It is on the list now. View attachment 11686
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I think I read that it has been on the list since 2017. It is the testing device that is squirrely.

Update: Yeah, 2017. This provides more information about how a clear hull, *with a particular wad*, can be used. I am guessing Epic is using this wad, with the clear shell case, temporarily. Once Epic and Boss have their own testing devices approved, then their non-clear shells and their own wads can be used (educated guess).

Federal Register :: Request Access

www.federalregister.gov www.federalregister.gov
 
Powderhorn Jim said:
I'm a sucker for new things so I bought 200 rounds of Boss 28ga copper last week. They even charge for putting it in 25 round boxes so it came in a single box with a large, heavy bag to carry it in. Cute but not that practical. I suspect it will shoot fine, pretty much like the bismuth I already load, but at least I have something new to play with.
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I usually buy Boss by the case and they always come that way with a "money bag" and a couple folded up Boss branded boxes you can pop out and use if you want. I personally prefer the 1 big clear bag so I can easily tell all my different loads apart.
 
That1uncle1776 said:
Please post results from the field with the copper. Im excited to see how this performs
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People have been reporting that it works the same as bismuth for waterfowl so far. And ballistic gel tests allegedly show about equal penetration as bismuth, but not as variable in depth.

I have an early run of Boss Copper #3, 3", 1 1/2 oz. Once their field testing device is approved, I will be taking out some roosters as a test. Pheasant roosters, that is (lest Goose's cousin gets any ideas with chicken roosters).
 
I bought a case of the Boss Copper 3/5, 3” 1 1/2oz and patterned them out of my Benelli with a Rob Roberts Biz choke installed. At 40 yards, the pellet count was almost identical. The difference was that the Boss Bismuth that I compared to(same load) patterned a bit tighter. The Copper was more uniformed and filled the circle better, in my opinion.
 
Chessie 67 said:
I bought a case of the Boss Copper 3/5, 3” 1 1/2oz and patterned them out of my Benelli with a Rob Roberts Biz choke installed. At 40 yards, the pellet count was almost identical. The difference was that the Boss Bismuth that I compared to(same load) patterned a bit tighter. The Copper was more uniformed and filled the circle better, in my opinion.
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Is the copper load buffered?
 
Limitless said:
Don't quote me on this. Don't quote me on this.

My best guess, from reading some of the online information, is that Boss is waiting for their field testing device to be approved by the feds. Once approved, then it is available to law enforcement, so the shot can be used. It sounds like Epic Shotshells is playing the same waiting game. The government shutdown is adding to the delays. The feds have the Boss device in their hands, but I believe they can't proceed during the shutdown.

My best guess is we are counting on conservation officers to be understanding if they check us with copper shot before that device is available. If they are the Barney Fife type, could be ugly. If they are thoughtful and understand bismuth is pretty much gone and steel sucks and tungsten isn't cost effective for most people, and we are trying to do the right thing by shooting copper, which is more expensive than steel, then not any ugly situation.

My best guess is the Epic Shotshells guy is counting on clear hulls to somehow work with an officer using regular UV lights to see the corrosion inhibiting powder glow (corrosion inhibited pure copper is what we are talking about here, and what was approved in the past, but nobody brought a testing device to market, nor the shells to market). I don't know why an opaque shell, cut open, and examined with the same uv light, wouldn't be equivalent. Maybe there has been some temporary agreement that Epic Shotshells has with the government for that combo, where they'll just eyeball the copper through the shell and let you go about your business? I don't know.

Best guess is to wait until the testing devices have been approved before using copper on animals, if you want to be 100% in the clear with the law.

Did I mention not to quote me on any of this?
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I had some time today so I waded through the Boss web information and the USFWS non-toxic shot regulations. I believe your recommendation is correct. Though the Boss copper shot appears to meet the USFWS standards for non-toxic shot, Boss hedges and states they "expect" an updated formal approval once their tester is approved. As I live in South Dakota, I also researched their regulations. As far as I can find, they don't specifically reference USFWS approved shot, they just refer to non-toxic shot. The safest approach seems to be to use steel, bismuth, tungsten and/or their USFWS approved analogues until Boss's copper shot is formally added to the USFWS approved list. I hunt because I enjoy it. I don't want to worry about whether the shot I'm using is legal or not. I do reload so I am faced with how law enforcement will handle reloaded non-toxic shells, but I'm willing to take that risk as I know the bismuth shot I'm using is "approved".

A niggling thought as I write this: is Boss going to supply their "approved" tester to all law enforcement or just make it available? Most game wardens don't want to get that deep into the weeds. They are looking for "real" violations, but there is always the outlier I guess.
 
I haven’t followed this completely, but I ran into a us fish and wildlife agent yesterday and asked him about copper shot; he said if it isn’t signed, sealed, and delivered by his agency, you’re out of luck.
 
No officer in his/her right mind would write you a ticket for shooting copper (that's on the approved non-toxic list). I'm all in on the Boss copper shot. Shoots great, patterns great, non-toxic. China blocked the Bismuth as they produce most of the world supply. Copper is a great alternative! All the copper from Boss is sourced in the United States.
 
I had been shooting bismuth 100% of the time. When things got dicey last year, I went to lead with bismuth as required. I figure my 2 cases of 12ga and case and a half of 20ga should last me about 10-15 years. Who knows what we will be shooting by then.

I am not sold on the copper. I thought the Boss marketing was great for their bismuth, great step up with Warchief. Clear benefits for a few bucks more, but not enough that I felt I had to make a switch from the regular to the Warchief. But I liked having the option.

The marketing on this copper has been off-putting for me. Bismuth was "just as good as lead" which we said whatever dude but it was definitely better than steel. Now the copper is "just as good as bismuth" or better with the gelatin tests. This just scientifically doesn't work. Sure you can up shot size and get similar or better performance, but don't tell me that metals with different densities perform the same.

At the same time, Boss being originally very anti-steel due to wounding loss has had the owner on the podcast saying his steel 7's and 8's hammered roosters in I think it was GA. Just feels like he does anything to sell a product and has lost his way now that his business has faced some strong adversity. Same with the target loads. Any amount of reading on shotgun world will show data that lead 8's and 9's lose their gusto on clays after about 35-40 yards. Don't quote me on the distance as I cannot remember and am not a clay games guy. But Boss claims their steel 8's hammer clays out to God's floorboards.
 
I have not shot the target loads, but I do know that Boss does a lot of technical work and testing before releasing data. Spoke with them at one of the shows and was very impressed with their team of people.
 
Powderhorn Jim said:
A niggling thought as I write this: is Boss going to supply their "approved" tester to all law enforcement or just make it available? Most game wardens don't want to get that deep into the weeds. They are looking for "real" violations, but there is always the outlier I guess.
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I thought they only needed to make it available, not provide it free of charge. I could be wrong though.
 
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