Looking for a black lab puppy.Not paying more than 500.

[agraham20]

I’m sure I will ruffle some feathers with this but I don’t really care. There’s always someone that gets lucky with a poorly bred dog that’s willing to argue, or they have an in real perception of said dog.
Most backyard breedings are cheap for a reason, they normally start off with a dog bought from a backyard breeding that they paid very little for usually from avg to poor genetics, with no health testing, and poorly cared for litters. Somehow that dog turns out to be the best hunting dog that person ever owned, will outhunt every other dog out there and had no formal training what so ever. Reality is most of the hunters are happy with a dog that hunts a few times a year, and might manage to stumble upon a couple of birds a year. Heck maybe they even bring back a bird and only manage to mangle it a little bit before the owner prys it away. That’s the best dog ever! Then said owner links up with his buddies dog who is also the best dog ever! Together they put out some amazing pups that anybody would be lucky to have. All for the slim fee of 500 or 600 bucks. Those pups then go to more expert hunter/dog handlers that proceed to turn those pups into absolute hunting machines! which starts the cycle of backyard breeding for someone else. Eventually hip issues or genetic issues start popping up in these backyard breedings which then gives good breeders who actually are about producing healthy well bred pups a bad name. People start shaming breeders for breeding good dogs and start pushing rescues and shelter dogs etc… also a large amount of shelter and rescue dogs come from out of this country because believe it or not alot of rescues and shelters are more about making money then saving dogs.
Anyways every ones version of a hunting dog or good hunting dog is different which is why nobody here will ever agree on this subject.
I as a responsible breeder strive to produce healthy and genetically sound pups from very high quality pedigrees. Dogs that are proven in and out of the field. The amount of things we do with our dogs and puppies you would understand why they aren’t for 500.00 and I don’t sell to just anybody looking for a dog either. I make sure my pups are going to good homes, and if someone were to ask to buy one of my pups for 500 I would know they aren’t the family I’m looking for. The concept a good breeder should be honored to sell someone a pup is ridiculous! Each pup leaving my home is like a family member and each family getting one becomes a part of my family.
Try calling that backyard breeder in 4 years if your dog ends up with hip or elbow dysplasia or a genetic condition… my money says they won’t answer. Then your out a heck of a lot more then the 500 you spent on that pup in the first place. Just my little rant

 

[westksbowhunter]

I’m sure I will ruffle some feathers with this but I don’t really care. There’s always someone that gets lucky with a poorly bred dog that’s willing to argue, or they have an in real perception of said dog.
Most backyard breedings are cheap for a reason, they normally start off with a dog bought from a backyard breeding that they paid very little for usually from avg to poor genetics, with no health testing, and poorly cared for litters. Somehow that dog turns out to be the best hunting dog that person ever owned, will outhunt every other dog out there and had no formal training what so ever. Reality is most of the hunters are happy with a dog that hunts a few times a year, and might manage to stumble upon a couple of birds a year. Heck maybe they even bring back a bird and only manage to mangle it a little bit before the owner prys it away. That’s the best dog ever! Then said owner links up with his buddies dog who is also the best dog ever! Together they put out some amazing pups that anybody would be lucky to have. All for the slim fee of 500 or 600 bucks. Those pups then go to more expert hunter/dog handlers that proceed to turn those pups into absolute hunting machines! which starts the cycle of backyard breeding for someone else. Eventually hip issues or genetic issues start popping up in these backyard breedings which then gives good breeders who actually are about producing healthy well bred pups a bad name. People start shaming breeders for breeding good dogs and start pushing rescues and shelter dogs etc… also a large amount of shelter and rescue dogs come from out of this country because believe it or not alot of rescues and shelters are more about making money then saving dogs.
Anyways every ones version of a hunting dog or good hunting dog is different which is why nobody here will ever agree on this subject.
I as a responsible breeder strive to produce healthy and genetically sound pups from very high quality pedigrees. Dogs that are proven in and out of the field. The amount of things we do with our dogs and puppies you would understand why they aren’t for 500.00 and I don’t sell to just anybody looking for a dog either. I make sure my pups are going to good homes, and if someone were to ask to buy one of my pups for 500 I would know they aren’t the family I’m looking for. The concept a good breeder should be honored to sell someone a pup is ridiculous! Each pup leaving my home is like a family member and each family getting one becomes a part of my family.
Try calling that backyard breeder in 4 years if your dog ends up with hip or elbow dysplasia or a genetic condition… my money says they won’t answer. Then your out a heck of a lot more then the 500 you spent on that pup in the first place. Just my little rant

4 years down the road, I doubt any breeder will do anything about a dysplastic dog. Most guarantee's are 26 months. I hate the term "Breeder". The definition of breeder is someone looking to make a profit off of breeding dogs. I prefer to buy my dogs from a trainer that breeds very few dogs. I like to buy from a trainer that hunts their dogs a lot and runs them in competition to have the titles to back them up. The trainers I seek out for puppies generally produce a litter once every 3 or 4 years and generally breed the female once or twice in the dogs lifetime. They generally sell on a limited registration basis. My advice, stay away from any breeder.

 

[agraham20]

4 years down the road, I doubt any breeder will do anything about a dysplastic dog. Most guarantee's are 26 months. I hate the term "Breeder". The definition of breeder is someone looking to make a profit off of breeding dogs. I prefer to buy my dogs from a trainer that breeds very few dogs. I like to buy from a trainer that hunts their dogs a lot and runs them in competition to have the titles to back them up. The trainers I seek out for puppies generally produce a litter once every 3 or 4 years and generally breed the female once or twice in the dogs lifetime. My advice, stay away from any breeder.

True on the dysplastic part my guarantee is only 26 months as well. But genetic defects should carry a lifetime as mine do. But if I had a puppy buyer come up with a dysplastic dog at 4 years that was well cared for and not overweight or neglected I would be willing to work with them. Not all breeders are for profit like you say.
My family doesn’t breed for money and we probably lose money on any puppies we sell. We breed because as a family we enjoy it, I enjoy watching pups I sell go to happy families and enjoy all the positive feedback and memories they share with us. We only do on avg 1 litter a year, and the money we make goes into offsetting the money we spend on training and competing our dogs. We have a small operation 3 dogs, each is well bred, extremely well cared for, each of them compete in AKC tests, and have titles, each of them hunts extensively on wild birds and pen raised birds when we partake in charity and youth hunts etc… I have a full time job and the dog part is a passion and hobby. we are amateur trainers that pay for all our own equipment, access to training grounds, birds, etc… we know everything about the dogs we breed and sell. There are lots of Breeders like us who sell a few high quality litters to people to offset our cost of the dog hobbies we pursue.
Now I do know breeders like you say that do it for a living, they have 10 or 15 dogs, and they breed litter after litter all year, some are very good and some aren’t. Most of them pay trainers to train and title their dogs so that they can sell the pups. Some of them produce some real nice pups also.
I have friends that are pro trainers that breed pups as well just like you explained.
Guess what they are all breeders the second they breed a dog. Good or bad they are breeders. Point is look for a good breeder not a bad one.

 

[westksbowhunter]

True on the dysplastic part my guarantee is only 26 months as well. But genetic defects should carry a lifetime as mine do. But if I had a puppy buyer come up with a dysplastic dog at 4 years that was well cared for and not overweight or neglected I would be willing to work with them. Not all breeders are for profit like you say.
My family doesn’t breed for money and we probably lose money on any puppies we sell. We breed because as a family we enjoy it, I enjoy watching pups I sell go to happy families and enjoy all the positive feedback and memories they share with us. We only do on avg 1 litter a year, and the money we make goes into offsetting the money we spend on training and competing our dogs. We have a small operation 3 dogs, each is well bred, extremely well cared for, each of them compete in AKC tests, and have titles, each of them hunts extensively on wild birds and pen raised birds when we partake in charity and youth hunts etc… I have a full time job and the dog part is a passion and hobby. we are amateur trainers that pay for all our own equipment, access to training grounds, birds, etc… we know everything about the dogs we breed and sell. There are lots of Breeders like us who sell a few high quality litters to people to offset our cost of the dog hobbies we pursue.
Now I do know breeders like you say that do it for a living, they have 10 or 15 dogs, and they breed litter after litter all year, some are very good and some aren’t. Most of them pay trainers to train and title their dogs so that they can sell the pups. Some of them produce some real nice pups also.
I have friends that are pro trainers that breed pups as well just like you explained.
Guess what they are all breeders the second they breed a dog. Good or bad they are breeders. Point is look for a good breeder not a bad one.

I would be interested in viewing the pedigree on your dogs. Looks like your in Minnesota and have labradors. Do you have Raider in your lines?

 

[agraham20]

I would be interested in viewing the pedigree on your dogs. Looks like your in Minnesota and have labradors. Do you have Raider in your lines?

no, I have a mix of pedigrees actually. My stud Dog is out of pointing lab lines, GMPR,MH QAA scooter, and 4xGMPR, MH, QAA rooster smasher. I guess if you go way back you might find raider in there on a dam side like 5 generations back or so.
Then I have a female chocolate based out of a MH with FC nan dool Elwood blues and FC AFC glenhome el chupacabra lines.
My most recent is a black female out of AFC drakes bay homerun hitter and a QA2 female out of NFC Micky.

 

[agraham20]

I would be interested in viewing the pedigree on your dogs. Looks like your in Minnesota and have labradors. Do you have Raider in your lines?

Raider wasn’t a bad dog, and had some accomplishments. But he didn’t deserve the cult following he got. Lots of better lines out there

 

[agraham20]

I would be interested in viewing the pedigree on your dogs. Looks like you’re in Minnesota and have labradors. Do you have Raider in your lines?

here’s my latest pups pedigree. I almost feel I moved to fast with her she was so smart, and trained so easily. Got her JH at less than a yr, and ran her first SH at just a little over a year. Failed on the honor in the final series because I didn’t prep her well enough for the honor, my fault not hers. Stepped on her double marks, ran great blinds, nice steady walk up. She did her first guided pheasant hunt last wknd and killed it. She’s a 45 lb bottle rocket.

 

[westksbowhunter]

here’s my latest pups pedigree. I almost feel I moved to fast with her she was so smart, and trained so easily. Got her JH at less than a yr, and ran her first SH at just a little over a year. Failed on the honor in the final series because I didn’t prep her well enough for the honor, my fault not hers. Stepped on her double marks, ran great blinds, nice steady walk up. She did her first guided pheasant hunt last wknd and killed it. She’s a 45 lb bottle rocket.

Similar in breeding to many of my dogs. Most all of mine were out of FC, AFC dogs. I like anything that goes back to Webshire Honest Abe and Wilderness Harley To Go lines. My friend who got me started in good field trial bred dogs got AFC Axle Turn of Oakdale as a puppy and put a title on him. He was a littermate to Abe. Those lines produce nice looking, terrific hunting dogs. Not the little snipey looking dogs you see today. I bred my Candlewood dog, a grandaughter of Lottie, to his male and got a singleton puppy. My first good dog was out of Candlewoods Nifty Nick years ago. I disagree on Raider. He was a great dog that produced better hunting dogs. Nice thick boned old fashioned hunting dogs. Maybe not dogs that exceled in the field trail world, but they were great Hunt Test, Pointing lines, and terrific hunting dogs. My male was out of Raider and a titled female out of Dakota's Cajun Roux. I have never seen a dog as talented as mine. He was big, 89 lbs with ribs showing, and could out hunt any dog alive. I averaged about 75 birds per year when he was alive and my son the same. He would bust ice and water when the temps were sub zero and never missed a beat. He was so natural with a great mouth. I did his OB and CC and started on FF when he was 8 months. We got through hold training in a week, and never really went to the ear pinch because he was so natural. Just went straight to the pile. He hunted just as good at 11 as he did at 1. After his 11th season, he came down with cancer in his jaw and didn't get to hunt the 12th season. He rests on the mantle now and will be buried with me when I pass. I had dogs out of FC, AFC, NFC, CFC, etc. and no dog came close to him. I did have 2 dogs that I got from Dennis Robbins in Alberta that were great dogs. If you don't know Dennis, he did all the early training on Lean Mac.

 

[agraham20]

Similar in breeding to many of my dogs. Most all of mine were out of FC, AFC dogs. I like anything that goes back to Webshire Honest Abe and Wilderness Harley To Go lines. My friend who got me started in good field trial bred dogs got AFC Axle Turn of Oakdale as a puppy and put a title on him. He was a littermate to Abe. Those lines produce nice looking, terrific hunting dogs. Not the little snipey looking dogs you see today. I bred my Candlewood dog, a grandaughter of Lottie, to his male and got a singleton puppy. My first good dog was out of Candlewoods Nifty Nick years ago. I disagree on Raider. He was a great dog that produced better hunting dogs. Nice thick boned old fashioned hunting dogs. Maybe not dogs that exceled in the field trail world, but they were great Hunt Test, Pointing lines, and terrific hunting dogs. My male was out of Raider and a titled female out of Dakota's Cajun Roux. I have never seen a dog as talented as mine. He was big, 89 lbs with ribs showing, and could out hunt any dog alive. I averaged about 75 birds per year when he was alive and my son the same. He would bust ice and water when the temps were sub zero and never missed a beat. He was so natural with a great mouth. I did his OB and CC and started on FF when he was 8 months. We got through hold training in a week, and never really went to the ear pinch because he was so natural. Just went straight to the pile. He hunted just as good at 11 as he did at 1. After his 11th season, he came down with cancer in his jaw and didn't get to hunt the 12th season. He rests on the mantle now and will be buried with me when I pass. I had dogs out of FC, AFC, NFC, CFC, etc. and no dog came close to him. I did have 2 dogs that I got from Dennis Robbins in Alberta that were great dogs. If you don't know Dennis, he did all the early training on Lean Mac.

There are so many nice lines and dogs out there it’s really hard to pick a favorite anymore. I can tell you there are alot of high end field lines I would not recommend the avg hunter and handler buy. In the right hands they make amazing dogs, in the wrong hands it goes badly. I’m not gonna disagree with you that raider lines threw pretty good hunting dogs, they were very popular and as most know had a big hand in the popularity behind modern pointing labs. They were very popular throughout the Midwest. There were always 2 sides in a breeding tho, and honestly I like Dakota Cajun roux lines in your dogs pedigree more than Raiders. Everyone has a preference tho, some people like big blocky dogs some like lean athletic dogs. Some like high drive some like slow and methodical. That’s the beauty of it, the dogs have evolved just like the training methods.
Now just because I like to play devils advocate, FF and ear pinch or toe hitch is important. Most people are fine with a dog with some good hold conditioning, but if you ever expect to train dogs to higher levels you can’t skip a true FF program. It teaches dogs so much about pressure concepts and not just the fetch command .

 

[Goosemaster]

The quality of that hunting dog is a matter of opinion tho.

You just have to hunt a lot, and bang a lot of birds.

 

[Goosemaster]

Similar in breeding to many of my dogs. Most all of mine were out of FC, AFC dogs. I like anything that goes back to Webshire Honest Abe and Wilderness Harley To Go lines. My friend who got me started in good field trial bred dogs got AFC Axle Turn of Oakdale as a puppy and put a title on him. He was a littermate to Abe. Those lines produce nice looking, terrific hunting dogs. Not the little snipey looking dogs you see today. I bred my Candlewood dog, a grandaughter of Lottie, to his male and got a singleton puppy. My first good dog was out of Candlewoods Nifty Nick years ago. I disagree on Raider. He was a great dog that produced better hunting dogs. Nice thick boned old fashioned hunting dogs. Maybe not dogs that exceled in the field trail world, but they were great Hunt Test, Pointing lines, and terrific hunting dogs. My male was out of Raider and a titled female out of Dakota's Cajun Roux. I have never seen a dog as talented as mine. He was big, 89 lbs with ribs showing, and could out hunt any dog alive. I averaged about 75 birds per year when he was alive and my son the same. He would bust ice and water when the temps were sub zero and never missed a beat. He was so natural with a great mouth. I did his OB and CC and started on FF when he was 8 months. We got through hold training in a week, and never really went to the ear pinch because he was so natural. Just went straight to the pile. He hunted just as good at 11 as he did at 1. After his 11th season, he came down with cancer in his jaw and didn't get to hunt the 12th season. He rests on the mantle now and will be buried with me when I pass. I had dogs out of FC, AFC, NFC, CFC, etc. and no dog came close to him. I did have 2 dogs that I got from Dennis Robbins in Alberta that were great dogs. If you don't know Dennis, he did all the early training on Lean Mac.

You are WAY INTO IT!

 

[westksbowhunter]

There are so many nice lines and dogs out there it’s really hard to pick a favorite anymore. I can tell you there are alot of high end field lines I would not recommend the avg hunter and handler buy. In the right hands they make amazing dogs, in the wrong hands it goes badly. I’m not gonna disagree with you that raider lines threw pretty good hunting dogs, they were very popular and as most know had a big hand in the popularity behind modern pointing labs. They were very popular throughout the Midwest. There were always 2 sides in a breeding tho, and honestly I like Dakota Cajun roux lines in your dogs pedigree more than Raiders. Everyone has a preference tho, some people like big blocky dogs some like lean athletic dogs. Some like high drive some like slow and methodical. That’s the beauty of it, the dogs have evolved just like the training methods.
Now just because I like to play devils advocate, FF and ear pinch or toe hitch is important. Most people are fine with a dog with some good hold conditioning, but if you ever expect to train dogs to higher levels you can’t skip a true FF program. It teaches dogs so much about pressure concepts and not just the fetch command .

That little dogs are more athletic is really bull shit. That's like saying that football players aren't as athletic as soccer players. You said yourself you liked Roux, he was 90 lbs. My dog was big and athletic, like Roux. People with small dogs always say that. I don't think I mentioned "blocky". I like nice well proportioned field dogs. My dog was big and athletic and I don't know any hunters who want a slow methodical dog. Look at Apex Retrievers. They have several bigger boned stud dogs and they are some of the best in the country. Yep FF is important and every dog I have owned has been through the process, except one. He was a great handling dog that ran honest blinds. There are a lot of British field champions that just go through hold conditioning. Stefani Latham does not force fetch at all. And she has the best British dogs and lines. No one does it better than her.

 

[agraham20]

That little dogs are more athletic is really bull shit. That's like saying that football players aren't as athletic as soccer players. My dog was big and athletic. People with small dogs always say that. I don't think I mentioned "blocky". I like nice well proportioned field dogs. My dog was big and athletic and I don't know any hunters who want a slow methodical dog. Look at Apex Retrievers. They have several bigger boned stud dogs and they are some of the best in the country. Yep FF is important and every dog I have owned has been through the process, except one. He was a great handling dog that ran honest blinds. There are a lot of British field champions that just go through hold conditioning. Stefani Latham does not force fetch at all. And she has the best British dogs and lines. No one does it better than her.

No you’re right you didn’t mention blocky, it’s just the assumption that comes to my head with raider lines and big dogs. Dakota was a big dog also. Also I didn’t mention little when I said lean and athletic.There’s also a pre conception that dogs have to be big strong males to be great hunting dogs.
I do agree with you tho that big dogs can be athletic. My stud dog isn’t real big but he is around 75lbs and lean. Can close in on 30mph and jump over 6ft in the air. He is the best natural pheasant dog I have ever owned, and has an amazing nose.
On terms of British field dogs and FF I haven’t played with them a lot. I had a British lab years back that never turned out. He hunted with my other dogs every year but he could care less about birds…. I have seen some good British labs too. But they train differently and you would be hard pressed to find many British labs that can hang in an Open or even a qual. Now there are some with MH, And GMHR but it’s not common and not easy. But on the opposite end of the spectrum I doubt many good open dogs will do well in a British trial. Same breed but bred for different traits. I’ve spent alot of time with trainers that prefer a slow methodical dog, they can be easier to control and handle. Not my cup of tee tho

 

[agraham20]

You just have to hunt a lot, and bang a lot of birds.

I had a lab that hunted 30 days a year for 7 years. Purebred, came from British stock. Plenty of opportunities to find birds. He looked for deer scat and rabbit poo instead while the other dogs flushed birds. I fell for this gimmick breeder who bred show stock with field stock to try and get the best of both worlds I wasn’t very smart back then.

 

[westksbowhunter]

I had a lab that hunted 30 days a year for 7 years. Purebred, came from British stock. Plenty of opportunities to find birds. He looked for deer scat and rabbit poo instead while the other dogs flushed birds. I fell for this gimmick breeder who bred show stock with field stock to try and get the best of both worlds I wasn’t very smart back then.

I would be interested in seeing the pedigree on the british dog.

No you’re right you didn’t mention blocky, it’s just the assumption that comes to my head with raider lines and big dogs. Dakota was a big dog also. Also I didn’t mention little when I said lean and athletic.There’s also a pre conception that dogs have to be big strong males to be great hunting dogs.
I do agree with you tho that big dogs can be athletic. My stud dog isn’t real big but he is around 75lbs and lean. Can close in on 30mph and jump over 6ft in the air. He is the best natural pheasant dog I have ever owned, and has an amazing nose.
On terms of British field dogs and FF I haven’t played with them a lot. I had a British lab years back that never turned out. He hunted with my other dogs every year but he could care less about birds…. I have seen some good British labs too. But they train differently and you would be hard pressed to find many British labs that can hang in an Open or even a qual. Now there are some with MH, And GMHR but it’s not common and not easy. But on the opposite end of the spectrum I doubt many good open dogs will do well in a British trial. Same breed but bred for different traits. I’ve spent alot of time with trainers that prefer a slow methodical dog, they can be easier to control and handle. Not my cup of tee tho

I look for titles but FC, NFC, AFC is not near as important when looking for a hunting dog as MH, GMPR, or HRCH titles are. For the hard core hunter, that is the route I recommend and what I look for now. Many of the FC titled dogs are rarely hunted anymore. Not that you can't get a good hunting dog out of an NFC. My little female is 55 lbs. She was a young pup when my old male was getting up in age. She could out run him all day long in 100 meter sprint, but in the water, he left her behind. She was a great swimmer, but he was Michael Phelps in the water. My female is now 10 and recovering from CCL surgery as we speak. I don't know what the statistic are, but I wonder if the smaller, quick, agile, retrievers are more prone to tearing the CCL. Seems like most of the labradors that tear them are the smaller quicker dogs that start, stop, and change directions more frequently. Now someone else will claim that bigger dogs are more likely to suffer from hip dysplasia. I think on hip dysplasia they are born with it, but jumping in and out of the truck, being over weight are contributing factors. Probably the same with CCL injuries. I have had 2 big males, 89 and 85 lbs both from the best breedings and both dogs were injury free for life. But this is the second pocket rocket that I had with knee injuries.

 

[agraham20]

I would be interested in seeing the pedigree on the british dog.

I look for titles but FC, NFC, AFC is not near as important when looking for a hunting dog as MH, GMPR, or HRCH titles are. For the hard core hunter, that is the route I recommend and what I look for now. Many of the FC titled dogs are rarely hunted anymore. Not that you can't get a good hunting dog out of an NFC. My little female is 55 lbs. She was a young pup when my old male was getting up in age. She could out run him all day long in 100 meter sprint, but in the water, he left her behind. She was a great swimmer, but he was Michael Phelps in the water. My female is now 10 and recovering from CCL surgery as we speak. I don't know what the statistic are, but I wonder if the smaller, quick, agile, retrievers are more prone to tearing the CCL. Seems like most of the labradors that tear them are the smaller quicker dogs that start, stop, and change directions more frequently. Now someone else will claim that bigger dogs are more likely to suffer from hip dysplasia. I think on hip dysplasia they are born with it, but jumping in and out of the truck, being over weight are contributing factors. Probably the same with CCL injuries. I have had 2 big males, 89 and 85 lbs both from the best breedings and both dogs were injury free for life. But this is the second pocket rocket that I had with knee injuries.

I 100% agree with you the avg hunter does best with Hunt test lines rather than FT. Most FT breedings are too much dog for the avg handler/hunter. There is a lot of research going into the genetics right now and they have found links to markers for ligament tests being genetic just like hips and elbows. I think it’s more hereditary then size of the dogs are well kept. Also I’ve seen links to dewclaw removal and higher rates of tears . I leave dewclaws on my litters.

 

[westksbowhunter]

I 100% agree with you the avg hunter does best with Hunt test lines rather than FT. Most FT breedings are too much dog for the avg handler/hunter. There is a lot of research going into the genetics right now and they have found links to markers for ligament tests being genetic just like hips and elbows. I think it’s more hereditary then size of the dogs are well kept. Also I’ve seen links to dewclaw removal and higher rates of tears . I leave dewclaws on my litters.

Stefani Latham leaves the dew claws on as do most british people.

 

[KEOutdoors]

Having bred lots of litters will disagree, the vet bills are huge, but if you are a back yard breeder, Im certain you can cut costs

These people dont do vets, and you are on your own with the puppy shots. My buddy found this out when he thought he got a deal with his $400 puppy and the first vet bill was $250 for the first round of shots and puppy starter pack, and he would have had another $300 to do dew claws under surgery but declined. He wanted to "save money" buying a FB dog over buying from a real breeder and getting a real bloodline hunting dog.

My dog had first round done by kennel, dew claws, vet checkup with paperwork the week before i picked it up, and they paid for the AKC paperwork and coupon for AKC microchip. I think my vet bills were right around $60 each for 3 trips, plus I did the $50 lymes shot.

Never EVER cheap out on a hunting dog

 

[KEOutdoors]

4 years down the road, I doubt any breeder will do anything about a dysplastic dog. Most guarantee's are 26 months. I hate the term "Breeder". The definition of breeder is someone looking to make a profit off of breeding dogs. I prefer to buy my dogs from a trainer that breeds very few dogs. I like to buy from a trainer that hunts their dogs a lot and runs them in competition to have the titles to back them up. The trainers I seek out for puppies generally produce a litter once every 3 or 4 years and generally breed the female once or twice in the dogs lifetime. They generally sell on a limited registration basis. My advice, stay away from any breeder.

My dog is guaranteed for eyes, hips and EIC for 5 years. Just need a vet to confirm with paperwork and the kennel gives purchase credit for new puppy whenever you are ready- good for your lifetime.

 

[KEOutdoors]

That's b s.I can turn any lab puppy into a hunting dog.

Says the guy with the dog tearing apart birds, that thinks "more time hunting" will fix...

You can turn any dog into a 'run around like an idiot and hopefully flush a bird as it runs past' dog. Then if all goes right, it will find the shot bird after 17 "dead bird" commands and 20 minutes of circles where it went down, getting stuck on every feather on top the grass. Then when it does find the bird, its nose down ass up ripping the hell out of it until the owner can get to it, smack it in the back and yell "GOOD BOY REMMY!!!" and then off to "hunt" some more!!