Looking for a black lab puppy.Not paying more than 500.

LCR10A said:
Why are some labs differentiated as British or English labs? Aren’t labs lab
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I may be wrong but it comes from the genetics. They also seem to have a bit of a different look/build and their disposition is usually not the same either. Maybe someone else can chime in that knows more.

I have a british and she is a yellow but her color is definitely more "white" in tone than a normal yellow. She is also smaller than the average American.
 
What is referred to as British bred dogs are dogs from British Field Champions generally. Usually a little calmer, smaller in statue, much softer in training. An English bred dog is a generally a show bred dog, not a field bred dog. Much different. The dogs pictured in the article that Dakotazeb posted are not what a british dog is. Those are english show dogs. American Field Bred dogs are going to be larger and able to take pressure. The British train much different than we do in America.
 
A good summary here: https://www.duckhillkennels.com/british-labradors

Many folks don't care for Robert Milner but he was the guy that really established British Labs in the US when he started Wildrose and brought British Labs into the US in 1983.

WestKS summed up the major differences.

In the UK dogs are tested on actual walk-up hunts, with all the usual and unusual things that can happen on a hunt. Not all dogs get the same presentation. The dogs are usually not handled as much. They are sent to the area of the fall and expected to bring back the game using their natural abilities. Handling does come into play though. They will also shoot hares and the dogs are expected to bring those in as well. The judges examine the retrieved game for evidence of hard mouth; that's severely frowned upon. Dogs get dropped for hard mouth.

Youtube: 2022 Retriever Championship Holkham Estate, Norfolk

The Brits do driven shoots as well. Dogs have to be under control and quiet as literally hundreds of birds get driven overhead and shot. Driven shoot explanation here: https://www.theyorkshiregent.com/shooting/driven-pheasant-shooting-everything-ever-wanted-know/

Truly though it depends on what you are looking for, what you value in the performance. Brit is not necessarily better than American. American is not necessarily better than Brit. Figure out what you need, what you want and go from there.

I will reiterate though that it is all risk management to me. You are reducing your risk of having a non-suitable bird dog if you get a pup with a deep lineage of proven performers, be it meat dogs or trial dogs. Usually, that type of lineage costs a little more.

You also reduce your risk if you get a pup with all the health clearances: hips, elbows, eyes, genetic clearances, etc.. A $500 pup that ends up needing a TPLO operation sorta raises the price of the pup.

I think most breeders that do all the tests will tell you there's no way they could sell pups for $500 without going in the hole.
 
This seems like a fake post to kill some time during the off-season, but I will add that while I was dog shopping this past fall/winter I saw several labs from private breedings for 5-600. These were AKC dogs as well, with trial backgrounds. But you get no guarantees with these dogs. With that being said, you can train almost any lab (or any intelligent dog for that matter) into a flusher for upland. Just needs to know here, heel, how to use its nose, and how to retrieve to hand and then give tons of hunting experience.

I went with a kennel, AKC champion field/hunting trial backgrounds on both parents and all ancestors registered 5 generations back. Even an upland pointing lab in there. Guaranteed hips, eyes, EIC and a few others that i cant remember off hand (free puppy whenever ready for your lifetime). Both parents on site at kennel (5 and 7yo), proven breeding between the two with champs. I paid $850 and feel like I stole it.
 
KEOutdoors said:
This seems like a fake post to kill some time during the off-season, but I will add that while I was dog shopping this past fall/winter I saw several labs from private breedings for 5-600. These were AKC dogs as well, with trial backgrounds. But you get no guarantees with these dogs. With that being said, you can train almost any lab (or any intelligent dog for that matter) into a flusher for upland. Just needs to know here, heel, how to use its nose, and how to retrieve to hand and then give tons of hunting experience.

I went with a kennel, AKC champion field/hunting trial backgrounds on both parents and all ancestors registered 5 generations back. Even an upland pointing lab in there. Guaranteed hips, eyes, EIC and a few others that i cant remember off hand (free puppy whenever ready for your lifetime). Both parents on site at kennel (5 and 7yo), proven breeding between the two with champs. I paid $850 and feel like I stole it.
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I paid 500
 
Ya know $500 bucks wont even recover the costs of the puppy let alone making a tiny profit for the breeder. We always tell a prospective owner price of the puppy you are buying is nothing compared to the price of owning the puppy through out its life.
 
Red Ryder said:
Ya know $500 bucks wont even recover the costs of the puppy let alone making a tiny profit for the breeder. We always tell a prospective owner price of the puppy you are buying is nothing compared to the price of owning the puppy through out its life.
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Sure it will, the $500 dogs are mostly two people breeding their non hunting, non trial, non working dogs together to make some money. You end up with dumb house dogs that you have to put in the newspaper or on Facebook to get rid of. You better hope the litter is all yellows so the soccer moms buy them.
 
I have three friends with "house dog" labs, that they paid between $150 and $400 for and tried to make hunting dogs. My puppy at 16wks was a better trained dog, and way more intelligent than any of theirs at 3-6yr. Its not impossible, but its pretty dang hard to make a great dog when it just doesn't have the genetics.
 
KEOutdoors said:
Sure it will, the $500 dogs are mostly two people breeding their non hunting, non trial, non working dogs together to make some money. You end up with dumb house dogs that you have to put in the newspaper or on Facebook to get rid of. You better hope the litter is all yellows so the soccer moms buy them.
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That's b s.I can turn any lab puppy into a hunting dog.
 
KEOutdoors said:
Sure it will, the $500 dogs are mostly two people breeding their non hunting, non trial, non working dogs together to make some money. You end up with dumb house dogs that you have to put in the newspaper or on Facebook to get rid of. You better hope the litter is all yellows so the soccer moms buy them.
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Having bred lots of litters will disagree, the vet bills are huge, but if you are a back yard breeder, Im certain you can cut costs
 
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