It Looks Grim

vizslaman said:
Well, you got me! I promised myself I wouldn't dip back into these frustrating conversations several years ago, but all this activity on the rapid decline of upland hunting in Kansas (and elsewhere) - and the potential fixes - has drawn me back into the fray. It helps that the solutions that I came up with back in 2010 are falling apart at the seams now, too.

I'll start here, because it seems to draw a lot of attention: KDWP (and to a lesser extent PF). Why the anger? What are they supposed to do? I agree with the sentiment that KDWP shouldn't be paying for (or advertising) 1 million acres, when 70% of it isn't worth hunting. And I do wish there was more fidelity to providing and improving habitat as part of the program. Certainly the State should get their money back if the farmer hays or pastures it. But remove those programs, and you turn a slow death of pheasant and quail hunting into a bullet to the head.

First, I haven't met too many farmers and ranchers in Kansas who are inclined to work with anyone on how they use their land, much less a government agency telling them how to operate. Plus, the macro environment is ensuring that landowners are forced to squeeze every nickel out of their ground. How is KDWP supposed to fight against sky-high land, equipment, seed and fertilizer prices? PF has the same issue - they want to work with landowners, but it takes two tango. Hell, they spent much of the last 4 decades lobbying for, and investing in, everything CRP. In hindsight, that was stupid, because the farmers turned their back on that program the moment it was worth a nickel more to farm it.

Fire away at KDWP and PF, they deserve some of it. But my concern is that this anger towards KDWP and PF distracts us from the real possibilities for change - the farmer, the rancher, the government being too involved (or not involved enough, depending on perspectives) in farming and ranching budgets, the seed/fertilizer companies (I am convinced spraying wiped out the quail in SEK), and our historical inclination to ensure our farming and ranching brothers experience little pain.

The good news is that the possible solutions are pretty simple. The bad news is that none of the folks above are likely going to help us get there.
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I don't think anyone is "firing" away at the KDWP as a whole. The bullets I shoot are at the KDWP Commissioners and KS Legislature.
 
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vizslaman said:
Well, you got me! I promised myself I wouldn't dip back into these frustrating conversations several years ago, but all this activity on the rapid decline of upland hunting in Kansas (and elsewhere) - and the potential fixes - has drawn me back into the fray. It helps that the solutions that I came up with back in 2010 are falling apart at the seams now, too.

I'll start here, because it seems to draw a lot of attention: KDWP (and to a lesser extent PF). Why the anger? What are they supposed to do? I agree with the sentiment that KDWP shouldn't be paying for (or advertising) 1 million acres, when 70% of it isn't worth hunting. And I do wish there was more fidelity to providing and improving habitat as part of the program. Certainly the State should get their money back if the farmer hays or pastures it. But remove those programs, and you turn a slow death of pheasant and quail hunting into a bullet to the head.

First, I haven't met too many farmers and ranchers in Kansas who are inclined to work with anyone on how they use their land, much less a government agency telling them how to operate. Plus, the macro environment is ensuring that landowners are forced to squeeze every nickel out of their ground. How is KDWP supposed to fight against sky-high land, equipment, seed and fertilizer prices? PF has the same issue - they want to work with landowners, but it takes two tango. Hell, they spent much of the last 4 decades lobbying for, and investing in, everything CRP. In hindsight, that was stupid, because the farmers turned their back on that program the moment it was worth a nickel more to farm it.

Fire away at KDWP and PF, they deserve some of it. But my concern is that this anger towards KDWP and PF distracts us from the real possibilities for change - the farmer, the rancher, the government being too involved (or not involved enough, depending on perspectives) in farming and ranching budgets, the seed/fertilizer companies (I am convinced spraying wiped out the quail in SEK), and our historical inclination to ensure our farming and ranching brothers experience little pain.

The good news is that the possible solutions are pretty simple. The bad news is that none of the folks above are likely going to help us get there.
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I think you in a way are echoing what I've said before -- KDWP PF and farming and ranching have to work together -- instead they let Big Ag (Monsanto, Pioneer, Cargill, whatever other corporate interests there are) dictate policy in their favor - the farmers/ranchers are like frogs in a kettle of cold water set to boil -- all these changes have happened slowly they have no idea they are going to die.

Meat industry did the same thing -- history keeps repeating itself.

I've come to the conclusion nothing will change - water like others have forecasted will be the issue that destroys everything - Ogallala is quickly being depleted -- once it's gone 2/3 to half of KS is dead. Plenty of warning has been put out there but no one cares.

I'm getting my kids through school or partway and getting my business more stable and looking to live elsewhere - 2 youngones, my business and parents approaching later stages in life are all that keeps me here. Left KS years ago - came back - but I look forward to leaving for good again at some point - never thought I'd say that. Nothing can stay the same I guess.
 
KsHusker said:
I think you in a way are echoing what I've said before -- KDWP PF and farming and ranching have to work together -- instead they let Big Ag (Monsanto, Pioneer, Cargill, whatever other corporate interests there are) dictate policy in their favor - the farmers/ranchers are like frogs in a kettle of cold water set to boil -- all these changes have happened slowly they have no idea they are going to die.

Meat industry did the same thing -- history keeps repeating itself.

I've come to the conclusion nothing will change - water like others have forecasted will be the issue that destroys everything - Ogallala is quickly being depleted -- once it's gone 2/3 to half of KS is dead. Plenty of warning has been put out there but no one cares.

I'm getting my kids through school or partway and getting my business more stable and looking to live elsewhere - 2 youngones, my business and parents approaching later stages in life are all that keeps me here. Left KS years ago - came back - but I look forward to leaving for good again at some point - never thought I'd say that. Nothing can stay the same I guess.
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Sad ...
 
Of course there will be pockets of cover and birds. SD and ND went through this last year with their drought. As I scouted northern SD and southern ND early last fall I found that essentially all of the grass on Walk in Hunting areas and many USF&WS area WPAs were cut. Private CRP especially on or near commercial operations - well not so much.
 
Looking for honest answer. We travel from S.W. Virginia usually the 2nd week in Jan. Plan is to hunt WIHA and whatever public/state property is available starting @ 83 and going east / west within a couple hrs either way. Given current conditions is it worth the effort. FYI, we bring 4 dogs and plenty of boot leather. Also, we're never expect limits but a realistic expectation of an opportunity would be nice. Thoughts ?
 
birddogs4evr said:
Looking for honest answer. We travel from S.W. Virginia usually the 2nd week in Jan. Plan is to hunt WIHA and whatever public/state property is available starting @ 83 and going east / west within a couple hrs either way. Given current conditions is it worth the effort. FYI, we bring 4 dogs and plenty of boot leather. Also, we're never expect limits but a realistic expectation of an opportunity would be nice. Thoughts ?
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I’ve hunted my home state of Kansas for 30 years solid.

I’m not going this year and only have a 6 hour drive.
 
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birddogs4evr said:
Looking for honest answer. We travel from S.W. Virginia usually the 2nd week in Jan. Plan is to hunt WIHA and whatever public/state property is available starting @ 83 and going east / west within a couple hrs either way. Given current conditions is it worth the effort. FYI, we bring 4 dogs and plenty of boot leather. Also, we're never expect limits but a realistic expectation of an opportunity would be nice. Thoughts ?
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You're going to find a major reduction in habitat and fierce competition on what WIHA is actually huntable.
 
birddogs4evr said:
Looking for honest answer. We travel from S.W. Virginia usually the 2nd week in Jan. Plan is to hunt WIHA and whatever public/state property is available starting @ 83 and going east / west within a couple hrs either way. Given current conditions is it worth the effort. FYI, we bring 4 dogs and plenty of boot leather. Also, we're never expect limits but a realistic expectation of an opportunity would be nice. Thoughts ?
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If I was coming it would be when you’re thinking. By that time you’ll find two or three roosters bunched up here and there in whatever covers left.There won’t be many. hens. But I wouldn’t bring more than one or two guys and I’d be looking at private
 
westksbowhunter said:
You're going to find a major reduction in habitat and fierce competition on what WIHA is actually huntable.
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20 hrs of windshield time which is not a problem if we have a chance but I've been following the forum for months as always and see no reason to expect even a fair hunt. Disappointing for sure but ...
 
From Virginia, I'm afraid I would switch my focus to new England and grouse. If you do go to KS I would try and think of it as a vacation. See some different terrain and hope for the best. I have been thinking like this for a few years but it's getting old! I haven't had a stellar year in KS or Iowa for a long time. For us east of the Mississippi, it's becoming a go deep or stay home kind of deal!
 
birddude said:
From Virginia, I'm afraid I would switch my focus to new England and grouse. If you do go to KS I would try and think of it as a vacation. See some different terrain and hope for the best. I have been thinking like this for a few years but it's getting old! I haven't had a stellar year in KS or Iowa for a long time. For us east of the Mississippi, it's becoming a go deep or stay home kind of deal!
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It is a " Hail Mary" for sure. Last year we hunted for six days, we did find a few pheasants, literally 3 or 4 every day but as you would expect in January, wild as hell ! Never got within range. Shot 1 quail between the 4 of us !
 
The good thing about Jan. permission is easier to get. Look for the thickest grass you can find! Let us know!
 
birddude said:
The good thing about Jan. permission is easier to get. Look for the thickest grass you can find! Let us know!
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I would normally agree but I can't remember much private I even drive by anymore thinking oh I better talk to that guy. Times have sure changed and I too will not be going this year at this point anyhow and it's only 3.5 hr for me to what used to be good pheasant country.
 
GetTothePoint said:
I would normally agree but I can't remember much private I even drive by anymore thinking oh I better talk to that guy. Times have sure changed and I too will not be going this year at this point anyhow and it's only 3.5 hr for me to what used to be good pheasant country.
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Yeah, I'm switching gears also. One early trip north for grouse, a week of local put and take phez, then one long one or one "vacation" with little walking some public. Hell, I'm thinking of taking my wife and see some sights, though I'm not sure if seeing Russel Stover's farm will excite her or not??
 
I don't know about the quail out west but we are down again I'd say in the east central/se region. We weren't great last couple years but I felt like we had a few birds around. Haven't seen squat this year even driving pastures and roads. We took our milo out early last week and I've been through 60 acres multiple times since combining running the dogs and haven't seen 1 quail. A custom hayer in the area echoed my thoughts when I asked if he'd been seeing any?
 
Drilling wheat in a soybean field that made 6 bushel adjoining one on my "better" milo fields. 1.3" of rain in southern ks since July 1
 

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