German Wirehaired Pointers vs other pointing breeds??

Mapledog said:
Thanks for the response! I have heard that they have a tendency to go face to face with porcupine and coon quite often. Is this just specific to the wirehairs? Or are German shorthairs similar?
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My experience is that the longer the GSPs have been in states the less emphasis most breeders put on fur aggression. And the closer the bloodline is to Germany the more likely. GWPs also but even if the breeder doesn't breed for it, you're more apt to get a throwback that will have the fur gene than the GSP. Also, I think the Draut's from VDD lines will probably have more fur genes in them because they breed and train close to the German standards. Also, I have owned many Wires that do not like strangers. I've had 2 that no one but immediate family could touch. I have one now that notices everything! freaks out when she comes out of the house and sees that a car has been moved! Barks and growls when company comes. warms up to them after a while and does not have the fur gene. The other loves everyone. Would jump in a car with anyone. Is very loving and calm..... and will hunt down and kill anything with fur. If you can't handle that you'll be happier with a setter or Brit.
 
birddude said:
My experience is that the longer the GSPs have been in states the less emphasis most breeders put on fur aggression. And the closer the bloodline is to Germany the more likely. GWPs also but even if the breeder doesn't breed for it, you're more apt to get a throwback that will have the fur gene than the GSP. Also, I think the Draut's from VDD lines will probably have more fur genes in them because they breed and train close to the German standards. Also, I have owned many Wires that do not like strangers. I've had 2 that no one but immediate family could touch. I have one now that notices everything! freaks out when she comes out of the house and sees that a car has been moved! Barks and growls when company comes. warms up to them after a while and does not have the fur gene. The other loves everyone. Would jump in a car with anyone. Is very loving and calm..... and will hunt down and kill anything with fur. If you can't handle that you'll be happier with a setter or Brit.
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Is it possible to train them not to run fur? It doesn’t bother me much but being in NW MT I don’t want to have issues of them chasing large predators when I’m chasing grouse in the mountains. I have had labs that chased deer but was able to break them pretty easy off of that.

As for the hit or miss with people that is fine. As long as they are good with immediate family and kids that’s all I can ask.

Thanks again for all the insight!
 
Mapledog said:
Is it possible to train them not to run fur? It doesn’t bother me much but being in NW MT I don’t want to have issues of them chasing large predators when I’m chasing grouse in the mountains. I have had labs that chased deer but was able to break them pretty easy off of that.

As for the hit or miss with people that is fine. As long as they are good with immediate family and kids that’s all I can ask.

Thanks again for all the insight!
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Chase of deer can be cured, the fur comments are more chance encounters in the field, and instead of ignoring and moving on it’s your going to die. My advice would be don’t tolerate chasing of any fur starting at home, bunnies, squirrels you name it. Some work it out over time but I don’t see any reason to tolerate it then be upset when it eats a porcupine
 
Quailnerd said:
Chase of deer can be cured, the fur comments are more chance encounters in the field, and instead of ignoring and moving on it’s your going to die. My advice would be don’t tolerate chasing of any fur starting at home, bunnies, squirrels you name it. Some work it out over time but I don’t see any reason to tolerate it then be upset when it eats a porcupine
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That makes sense! I don’t let my current dogs chase anything with fur so that won’t be an issue. Thanks for the clarification!
 
Mapledog said:
Is it possible to train them not to run fur? It doesn’t bother me much but being in NW MT I don’t want to have issues of them chasing large predators when I’m chasing grouse in the mountains. I have had labs that chased deer but was able to break them pretty easy off of that.

As for the hit or miss with people that is fine. As long as they are good with immediate family and kids that’s all I can ask.

Thanks again for all the insight!
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You can train them off fur, but it's always risky with the shock collar. You give a dog to much juice; you might ruin it. Some dogs can handle it some can't. It can also take a long time. A smart dog might think that just because he gets shocked when he's after a coon doesn't mean he can't have a porky and on and on. That best dog I've ever owned I mentioned earlier took about three years. Also is the cost. If you don't already have a shock collar, you'll need one. If you're going to buy one, you might as well have a tracking collar combo. Now you have another 700 invested. Add that to the pup price you could buy a started setter and wouldn't need to break it from anything. I'm not trying to talk you out of a Wire. I just want you to know that they are not for everybody.
 
birddude said:
You can train them off fur, but it's always risky with the shock collar. You give a dog to much juice; you might ruin it. Some dogs can handle it some can't. It can also take a long time. A smart dog might think that just because he gets shocked when he's after a coon doesn't mean he can't have a porky and on and on. That best dog I've ever owned I mentioned earlier took about three years. Also is the cost. If you don't already have a shock collar, you'll need one. If you're going to buy one, you might as well have a tracking collar combo. Now you have another 700 invested. Add that to the pup price you could buy a started setter and wouldn't need to break it from anything. I'm not trying to talk you out of a Wire. I just want you to know that they are not for everybody.
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I’m familiar with e collar training for a lab but understand that each dog is different! I’m happy to hear they can be trained away from fur in time! I appreciate you pointing out the extra costs that I wouldn’t have thought of right away. I figured a tracking collar would be a necessity for most pointing breeds when hunting the prairie and I have started adding those to my list of things to buy before I purchase a pup. Thank you for helping during this journey! It’s nice to have so much feedback from everyone and to be able to think outside the box a little bit!
 
I had to learn (a little later than ideal) with my pointing lab, to just let him hunt without giving him alot of commands/instruction. I was training him like a flushing dog with alot of control, don't go too far, quarter over and back and things like that. This led to him doubting himself when I stopped giving him instructions and checking back in too often, even when working old bird scent. A pointer should be more independent in how they think and cover ground. My excessive handling early in his hunting career has definitely limited his range and how much ground he covers. The only time I have really seen him go past 50yds (even in wide open prairie) is when he's hot on a pheasant track. I'm just saying especially for his first season, be uncomfortable with how far out your dog is as long as they're otherwise behaving. If you need to bring them in for another issue that's fine; Keep them safe and under control, but if you want a 100yard dog don't "pull them back" until 150yards. A dogs hunting range is like a rope; pretty easy to pull in shorter, but very tricky to push out there farther.
 
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GladHunter said:
I had to learn (a little later than ideal) with my pointing lab, to just let him hunt without giving him alot of commands/instruction. I was training him like a flushing dog with alot of control, don't go too far, quarter over and back and things like that. This led to him doubting himself when I stopped giving him instructions and checking back in, even when working old bird scent. A pointer should be more independent in how they think and cover ground. My excessive handling early in his hunting career has definitely limited his range and how much ground he covers. The only time I have really seen him go past 50yds (even in wide open prairie) is when he's hot on a pheasant track. I'm just saying especially for his first season, be uncomfortable with how far out your dog is as long as they're otherwise behaving. If you need to bring them in for another issue that's fine; Keep them safe and under control, but if you want a 100yard dog don't "pull them back" until 150yards. A dogs hunting range is like a rope; pretty easy to pull in shorter, but very tricky to push out there farther.
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I have similar issues with my current lab. I instructed to often instead of letting her hunt and now she checks in often. It’s not a bad thing as a flusher by any means I just wish she trusted herself as much as I do!

I believe that is going to be the biggest challenge for me personally is allowing the dog to do what it’s bred to do and hunt as it needs to without trying to correct. I appreciate your insight!
 
GladHunter said:
I had to learn (a little later than ideal) with my pointing lab, to just let him hunt without giving him alot of commands/instruction. I was training him like a flushing dog with alot of control, don't go too far, quarter over and back and things like that. This led to him doubting himself when I stopped giving him instructions and checking back in too often, even when working old bird scent. A pointer should be more independent in how they think and cover ground. My excessive handling early in his hunting career has definitely limited his range and how much ground he covers. The only time I have really seen him go past 50yds (even in wide open prairie) is when he's hot on a pheasant track. I'm just saying especially for his first season, be uncomfortable with how far out your dog is as long as they're otherwise behaving. If you need to bring them in for another issue that's fine; Keep them safe and under control, but if you want a 100yard dog don't "pull them back" until 150yards. A dogs hunting range is like a rope; pretty easy to pull in shorter, but very tricky to push out there farther.
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Same. I learned quickly to Trust The Dog!
 
GladHunter said:
I had to learn (a little later than ideal) with my pointing lab, to just let him hunt without giving him alot of commands/instruction. I was training him like a flushing dog with alot of control, don't go too far, quarter over and back and things like that. This led to him doubting himself when I stopped giving him instructions and checking back in too often, even when working old bird scent. A pointer should be more independent in how they think and cover ground. My excessive handling early in his hunting career has definitely limited his range and how much ground he covers. The only time I have really seen him go past 50yds (even in wide open prairie) is when he's hot on a pheasant track. I'm just saying especially for his first season, be uncomfortable with how far out your dog is as long as they're otherwise behaving. If you need to bring them in for another issue that's fine; Keep them safe and under control, but if you want a 100yard dog don't "pull them back" until 150yards. A dogs hunting range is like a rope; pretty easy to pull in shorter, but very tricky to push out there farther.
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Well said, a steady pointing dog should be allowed unlimited range imo… if over handled early natural reaction is usually come back to make pressure stop
 
I think most good hunting dogs have a high prey drive. My setter when bored would chase and kill anything. But when on birds he’s all business not being distracted by bunnies or other soft cuddlies. Couple skunks in the off season was not fun
 
I have a female wirehair that will be 4 this summer. She is a great dog, loves people and is very much a velcro dog, especially with my wife.

Now a bird hunt can quickly turn in to a rabbit, squirrel or badger hunt in a blink of an eye. And it has, but thus far its been more of an annoyance than a problem.

She is hell on grouse, woodcock and handled her first Kansas bobwhites like a pro last season. She is not heat tolerant, but excels in the cold. Unlike my shorthair.

Wirehairs are extremely durable and tenacious, but they are not setters or pointers, so dont expect them to run with a high head and be super flashy.
 
I agree with this. My setter is all about birds guess that’s why they call them bird dogs. When he go for our daily walks she is always hunting. The woodcock have moved out now so her focus has shifted. She knows to leave the deer alone because I have trained her to . She knows to leave the bunnies but sometimes it’s just too much. She will catch one and carry it around for a while. She doesn’t kill them because of her natural soft mouth. The recent game for her is frogs. The frogs are waking up and mating. She is pointing frogs chasing frogs. I let her go she is having a little fun and it keeps her occupied. If we ever go where birds are around like my place up north she could care less about anything else and focus on the occasional grouse and woodcock. I am very partial to the pointing dogs. Particularly llewellin setters and Brittany spaniel. They are just so graceful and fun to watch.
 
Mapledog said:
I’m familiar with e collar training for a lab but understand that each dog is different! I’m happy to hear they can be trained away from fur in time! I appreciate you pointing out the extra costs that I wouldn’t have thought of right away. I figured a tracking collar would be a necessity for most pointing breeds when hunting the prairie and I have started adding those to my list of things to buy before I purchase a pup. Thank you for helping during this journey! It’s nice to have so much feedback from everyone and to be able to think outside the box a little bit!
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Sounds like you've made up your mind. They are an amazing breed. Yes, they are quirky. Yes, they like fur. I've owned most breeds. Setters and Britts, etc. they have a certain expression when they look at you. It's more of a I love you look. But Wires have certain look in their eyes. Actually more than one. You'll see what I mean. Good luck and keep us posted.
 
birddude said:
Not sure if Treborwolf is still in business or not. They do still have a web sight.

You may be all wet, but you are correct in my opinion. I once trained to a pretty high degree. My dogs were impressive. But when you release them to hunt it's mostly genetics.. Don't get me wrong, there must be some degree of training. And now days I sometimes don't train enough. But a lot of it is fluff. I think I'm on my 7th or 8th Wire. I've had 2 given to me. I never asked where they came from. One was a big hard hunting male that liked to fight. Hunted with his nose on the ground, leading to a lot of bumped birds. I got rid of him. The other although a very close hunter also a ground scent hunter was my all-time favorite dog. I didn't say best just my favorite. A wonderful loving dog, who would jump in the fires of hell if I asked her. Be advised that wires are Velcro dogs. They thrive on human contact. Some do not make good kennel dogs. They may take being thrown in a kennel personal. Don't be surprised if they do not like strangers. If there is any possible way, make your dog a house dog. Take it with you when you can. They will generally bond with one person. I have two now. One is my shadow. If I'm gone, she stays outside and waits for me. She's laying at my feet as we speak. The other is still in bed with mom. Lays on her lap constantly.
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Sounds like a Chessie…
 
I use a Garmin when I hunt my wirehair, but not because she is a rangy dog. She is a close working dog 50-75 yards, even out west in the prairie she rarely gets more than 125-150 yards away.

If you want a closer working dog, get one from a kennel that has closer working dogs.

I take 2-3 trips out west and the thought of those big running dogs is awful tempting, but 95% of my hunting is grouse and woodcock, where a close working dog is really all I need.
 
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