German Wirehaired Pointers vs other pointing breeds??

[Quailnerd]

I may be in left field with a hockey stick, but my take on the basics with hunting dogs is a bit like putting the Farrah Fawcett poster from 50 years ago in front of a 12 year old boy…if it doesn’t stir something within, you’re gonna have a tough time eliciting the desired response! I think it’s instinctive within the dog, or not!, and training is done to make that dog work for you, the way you want to hunt with the dog. I may be wrong…hope I am…but if the dog doesn’t “have it”, it’s a pretty tough slog…so, yes, I think genetics are the key. Now I’m not a pointer guy, I may be all wet here!

I think your spot on, I know two dogs that came from top of the line breeding, proven kennels with adequate hunting time and at the end of the day the dogs had no desire. Both were weims which are a crap shoot to begin with. Pick a practical breed that does want you want and go for it! If a person loves a specialty breed you’ve already accepted it could be a bigger gamble. In today’s age of video there’s no reason a breeder can not produce real hunting footage of parents and kennel talent hunting the birds you want. IMO

 

[Mapledog]

They can be really good dogs. They can also be troublesome. In this part of the country Michigan, they are known to hunt porcupine coon, run deer. I’ve hunted with some really good ones and I’ve spent half a day chasing the dog around. Not an expert by any means just my experience. They call them versatile hunting dogs everything’s on the menu

Thanks for the response! I have heard that they have a tendency to go face to face with porcupine and coon quite often. Is this just specific to the wirehairs? Or are German shorthairs similar?

 

[Mapledog]

This may not go over well with some, but have you looked into Pointing Labs? I will not own any other dog for hunting. Mine is now six and a machine in the pheasant fields.

I have not! I will do some research into them and see what I can find out! Thanks for the recommendation!

 

[Mapledog]

There are really good dogs in every breed. There are average dogs in every breed. There are not so good dogs in every breed. Probably there is more difference within the breeds than between the breeds. Draghts do have some very high standards.

Thanks! I will make sure to look into draghts as well!

 

[Mapledog]

Don't be confused there are differences between pointers and versatile breeds, pointers tend to avoid furry creatures which is good versatile breeds were developed to be a do all and that's ok but there is a difference

That’s something I did not think about! Thanks!

 

[Mapledog]

Not sure if Treborwolf is still in business or not. They do still have a web sight.

You may be all wet, but you are correct in my opinion. I once trained to a pretty high degree. My dogs were impressive. But when you release them to hunt it's mostly genetics.. Don't get me wrong, there must be some degree of training. And now days I sometimes don't train enough. But a lot of it is fluff. I think I'm on my 7th or 8th Wire. I've had 2 given to me. I never asked where they came from. One was a big hard hunting male that liked to fight. Hunted with his nose on the ground, leading to a lot of bumped birds. I got rid of him. The other although a very close hunter also a ground scent hunter was my all-time favorite dog. I didn't say best just my favorite. A wonderful loving dog, who would jump in the fires of hell if I asked her. Be advised that wires are Velcro dogs. They thrive on human contact. Some do not make good kennel dogs. They may take being thrown in a kennel personal. Don't be surprised if they do not like strangers. If there is any possible way, make your dog a house dog. Take it with you when you can. They will generally bond with one person. I have two now. One is my shadow. If I'm gone, she stays outside and waits for me. She's laying at my feet as we speak. The other is still in bed with mom. Lays on her lap constantly.

Thanks! I would plan on making it a family dog as well as a hunting dog. I currently do not kennel my labs as they are glued to my side 24/7. My kids love our labs and make sure they never go without attention so I don’t believe that would be an issue. Have you found your wires to handle kids fine? Kids are not known to always be gentle no matter how many times they are reminded the dogs are not jungle gyms! My labs handle it great and enjoy it most of the time but I wasn’t sure the temperament of wires if they would handle that stuff fine or if I should wait until my kids are a little older.

 

[2point]

I am a lab guy currently have a 3 yo and I am getting old so I thinking of getting one more pup. I have looked very hard at the WPG. A local guy has a couple wonderful breedings each year. I visited him and was impressed. They check a lot of the boxes for me. Waterfowl, upland, can take cold weather, people oriented are all covered. One thing I am not in love with is the grooming.

It also makes it hard for me is my little lab is a wonderful upland and waterfowl dog. Of all my 7 labs I have had, she has the best nose. She is cripple finding machine. So I am still on the fence, WPG or lab? The GWPs are out for me because guys I know that have them say they do have a fur aggression and can’t handle the cold as well as griffs. I know they are wonderful upland dogs, but I do a ton of cold weather waterfowl hunting also. Good luck, and enjoy the new pup whatever it is.

 

[Goosemaster]

Not sure if Treborwolf is still in business or not. They do still have a web sight.

You may be all wet, but you are correct in my opinion. I once trained to a pretty high degree. My dogs were impressive. But when you release them to hunt it's mostly genetics.. Don't get me wrong, there must be some degree of training. And now days I sometimes don't train enough. But a lot of it is fluff. I think I'm on my 7th or 8th Wire. I've had 2 given to me. I never asked where they came from. One was a big hard hunting male that liked to fight. Hunted with his nose on the ground, leading to a lot of bumped birds. I got rid of him. The other although a very close hunter also a ground scent hunter was my all-time favorite dog. I didn't say best just my favorite. A wonderful loving dog, who would jump in the fires of hell if I asked her. Be advised that wires are Velcro dogs. They thrive on human contact. Some do not make good kennel dogs. They may take being thrown in a kennel personal. Don't be surprised if they do not like strangers. If there is any possible way, make your dog a house dog. Take it with you when you can. They will generally bond with one person. I have two now. One is my shadow. If I'm gone, she stays outside and waits for me. She's laying at my feet as we speak. The other is still in bed with mom. Lays on her lap constantly.

I don't believe in kennels, and I don't believe in getting rid of dogs. Our German wire hair kill the neighbor's cat, killed several bunnies, got into porcupines, got into skunks, but my dad was a US magistrate, so he was going to sue the neighbor actually. German wire areas are great dogs ours was a female, they do like to kill things.

 

[Mapledog]

I am a lab guy currently have a 3 yo and I am getting old so I thinking of getting one more pup. I have looked very hard at the WPG. A local guy has a couple wonderful breedings each year. I visited him and was impressed. They check a lot of the boxes for me. Waterfowl, upland, can take cold weather, people oriented are all covered. One thing I am not in love with is the grooming.

It also makes it hard for me is my little lab is a wonderful upland and waterfowl dog. Of all my 7 labs I have had, she has the best nose. She is cripple finding machine. So I am still on the fence, WPG or lab? The GWPs are out for me because guys I know that have them say they do have a fur aggression and can’t handle the cold as well as griffs. I know they are wonderful upland dogs, but I do a ton of cold weather waterfowl hunting also. Good luck, and enjoy the new pup whatever it is.

Thanks for the response! I love my labs and think they are great as well! I currently live in NW MT and the cold weather was a factor that I was looking into as well. Being that our upland season starts Sept 1st I also was trying to take the heat into account as well for those early season hunts. Do the WPG’s have less of a fur aggression? Are they a true pointing breed rather than a multi-use dog? Sorry for my ignorance I am trying to learn as much as possible about the pointing breeds before making a decision on a puppy!

 

[Goosemaster]

Thanks for the response! I have heard that they have a tendency to go face to face with porcupine and coon quite often. Is this just specific to the wirehairs? Or are German shorthairs similar?

Yep German shorthairs, and German wire hairs.

 

[LC Smith]

I have not! I will do some research into them and see what I can find out! Thanks for the recommendation!

This is a great place to begin your research. They are also very active on FB, etc. There are some really remarkable dog breeders that produce some amazing dogs. There is actually a kennel in Montana I will most likely get my next one from.

APLA Home - American Pointing Labrador Association

Promote the pointing Labrador Retriever through training, breeding, education, performance and competition.

www.americanpointinglab.com

 

[2point]

Thanks for the response! I love my labs and think they are great as well! I currently live in NW MT and the cold weather was a factor that I was looking into as well. Being that our upland season starts Sept 1st I also was trying to take the heat into account as well for those early season hunts. Do the WPG’s have less of a fur aggression? Are they a true pointing breed rather than a multi-use dog? Sorry for my ignorance I am trying to learn as much as possible about the pointing breeds before making a decision on a puppy!

I live in west central Montana so we are close to each other. I have been studying the WPG for about a year. My friend bought one in Idaho and she is turning out great. All dogs are different with aggression but it seems griffs have less of a fur drive than GWPs from what I heard. They are definitely true pointers. The breeder I talked to said his are smart and range accordingly to the species hunted. Prairie sharpies and Huns 200 yards, pheasants 100 yards, mountain grouse 50 yards is what he likes. For mountain grouse you probably want a closer dog with all the griz and wolves in your area.

One thing I have heard is if you are coming from a lab you can’t be heavy handed with them. They are not soft dogs by any means but your voice and tone gets your point across. You may need to adjust your e collar ways. The breeder I talked to force fetches about half of his dogs, says others don’t need it.

The are often called the Velcro dog as they love to always be next to you. Many griffs I have stood by sit close to you and put their head on leg. Some people don’t like that. My labs were all cuddlers and I like it, so no problem for me.

It seems they take cold weather really well. Depends on what you are doing but they may need a vest when weather is in the teens like a lab. The breeder said they are pretty heat tolerate also. He has one that could go all day at 80 degrees, of course he doesn’t do that.

Of course a good griff breeder sells out the litter way before they are born. So I know his 2 litters are gone. But you might want to check out the breed. As with any breed do your due diligence on the breeder if you go that way.

 

[Mapledog]

This is a great place to begin your research. They are also very active on FB, etc. There are some really remarkable dog breeders that produce some amazing dogs. There is actually a kennel in Montana I will most likely get my next one from.

APLA Home - American Pointing Labrador Association

Promote the pointing Labrador Retriever through training, breeding, education, performance and competition.

www.americanpointinglab.com

Thank you! I’ll look into them!

 

[Mapledog]

I live in west central Montana so we are close to each other. I have been studying the WPG for about a year. My friend bought one in Idaho and she is turning out great. All dogs are different with aggression but it seems griffs have less of a fur drive than GWPs from what I heard. They are definitely true pointers. The breeder I talked to said his are smart and range accordingly to the species hunted. Prairie sharpies and Huns 200 yards, pheasants 100 yards, mountain grouse 50 yards is what he likes. For mountain grouse you probably want a closer dog with all the griz and wolves in your area.

One thing I have heard is if you are coming from a lab you can’t be heavy handed with them. They are not soft dogs by any means but your voice and tone gets your point across. You may need to adjust your e collar ways. The breeder I talked to force fetches about half of his dogs, says others don’t need it.

The are often called the Velcro dog as they love to always be next to you. Many griffs I have stood by sit close to you and put their head on leg. Some people don’t like that. My labs were all cuddlers and I like it, so no problem for me.

It seems they take cold weather really well. Depends on what you are doing but they may need a vest when weather is in the teens like a lab. The breeder said they are pretty heat tolerate also. He has one that could go all day at 80 degrees, of course he doesn’t do that.

Of course a good griff breeder sells out the litter way before they are born. So I know his 2 litters are gone. But you might want to check out the breed. As with any breed do your due diligence on the breeder if you go that way.

I will have to do some more research on them and see what I can find! As for the training portion, I plan to take my time and learn the training necessary for a pointing dog before I even purchase a puppy. I want to make sure that I understand how to properly train so that the dog can reach its full potential in the field!

As for a Velcro dog… my lab is currently one and I don’t mind it at all so that is not a problem! I’m glad to hear they can handle both the heat and cold. Do you mind sending me the breeders information you have been in contact with? I would like to pick his brain some as well about the breed itself!

I am at least a year or two out before I really want to purchase one but would like to start talking and learning more about the different breeds!

Thanks for all the feedback!

 

[Teamramrod]

I was in the same spot you're in 2 years ago and started my research. Life time Lab owner but he is getting older now and doesn't have full day hunts in him knowing I was about 2 years out from adding a puppy I started looking. I researched and hunted over German Shorthairs, German Wirehairs, and Griffons. This is my opinion and how they would fit into my hunting style and family life. I have 3 little kids also. Not interested in starting arguments these are just my opinions.

GSP's-The ones I hunted over were high energy and had no off switch. I know this is the individual dog's and not the breed but it was something that I noted. I quickly ruled out GSP's due to the shorter hair and questionable cold weather resistance hunting late season in MN. Great dogs, just not a fit for me.

GWP's- I hunted over a good number of GWP's for upland hunting and really enjoyed them. High drive, great endurance for long days and fantastic off switches in the house and in the truck driving. The guys that owned them did not crate them in the truck, they laid on the floor until the next field.

WPG's- I hunted pheasant and quail over 8 WPG's for a week. Very similar to the GWP but a lot slower and more methodical in their hunting. They never stopped until it was time to come in the house, but the speed hunting was about 25% all day. Slow speed wasn't a bad thing but it just seemed like we left a lot of ground uncovered and had to stop and wait for the dogs on more than one occasion. Great noses and instinct and absolute couch potatoes inside.

My hunting style I like to cover a lot of ground and keep moving to maximize contact with birds. But we also need a dog that can live in the house 365 days a year we do not have outside dogs they live in the house with us.

I settled on the GWP for what I wanted and then started researching breeders. After calling 5-10 breeders it seemed that I was comparing everyone to Top Shelf Kennels in ND. He is breeding what I am after and at a very high level. Anyways sorry for the long winded reply but our GWP puppy comes home this weekend and we are very excited to start the training and add him to our family.

 

[2point]

I will have to do some more research on them and see what I can find! As for the training portion, I plan to take my time and learn the training necessary for a pointing dog before I even purchase a puppy. I want to make sure that I understand how to properly train so that the dog can reach its full potential in the field!

As for a Velcro dog… my lab is currently one and I don’t mind it at all so that is not a problem! I’m glad to hear they can handle both the heat and cold. Do you mind sending me the breeders information you have been in contact with? I would like to pick his brain some as well about the breed itself!

I am at least a year or two out before I really want to purchase one but would like to start talking and learning more about the different breeds!

Thanks for all the feedback!

Wow you do sound like me. I am not an expert on griffs, heck I never owned one. I hope some more people will chime in. You might want to read the book Colter by Rick Bass. Great author who lives close to you up in the Yaak. If you have seen the TV series Mountain Men there is a guy named Tom Oar(sp??). This guy buys a German Shorthair Pointer from him and tells his life story. Nice read for sure.

Jason Mann of Hamilton MT has Featherhead Griffons is who I visited. Super nice knowledgeable guy. He is into the NAVHDA stuff. Heck maybe we will get litter mates. I do think 2 of his females may be retiring from breeding soon. I am sure there are many great breeders of griffs. Like I said a buddy of mine got his in Idaho.

 

[Weimdogman]

I think your spot on, I know two dogs that came from top of the line breeding, proven kennels with adequate hunting time and at the end of the day the dogs had no desire. Both were weims which are a crap shoot to begin with. Pick a practical breed that does want you want and go for it! If a person loves a specialty breed you’ve already accepted it could be a bigger gamble. In today’s age of video there’s no reason a breeder can not produce real hunting footage of parents and kennel talent hunting the birds you want. IMO

Which kennel(s) did the weims come from? PM me if you want

 

[Weimdogman]

I was in the same spot you're in 2 years ago and started my research. Life time Lab owner but he is getting older now and doesn't have full day hunts in him knowing I was about 2 years out from adding a puppy I started looking. I researched and hunted over German Shorthairs, German Wirehairs, and Griffons. This is my opinion and how they would fit into my hunting style and family life. I have 3 little kids also. Not interested in starting arguments these are just my opinions.

GSP's-The ones I hunted over were high energy and had no off switch. I know this is the individual dog's and not the breed but it was something that I noted. I quickly ruled out GSP's due to the shorter hair and questionable cold weather resistance hunting late season in MN. Great dogs, just not a fit for me.

GWP's- I hunted over a good number of GWP's for upland hunting and really enjoyed them. High drive, great endurance for long days and fantastic off switches in the house and in the truck driving. The guys that owned them did not crate them in the truck, they laid on the floor until the next field.

WPG's- I hunted pheasant and quail over 8 WPG's for a week. Very similar to the GWP but a lot slower and more methodical in their hunting. They never stopped until it was time to come in the house, but the speed hunting was about 25% all day. Slow speed wasn't a bad thing but it just seemed like we left a lot of ground uncovered and had to stop and wait for the dogs on more than one occasion. Great noses and instinct and absolute couch potatoes inside.

My hunting style I like to cover a lot of ground and keep moving to maximize contact with birds. But we also need a dog that can live in the house 365 days a year we do not have outside dogs they live in the house with us.

I settled on the GWP for what I wanted and then started researching breeders. After calling 5-10 breeders it seemed that I was comparing everyone to Top Shelf Kennels in ND. He is breeding what I am after and at a very high level. Anyways sorry for the long winded reply but our GWP puppy comes home this weekend and we are very excited to start the training and add him to our family.

Find out why Jeff was kicked out of navhda

 

[Teamramrod]

Find out why Jeff was kicked out of navhda

Care to elaborate? You can PM me if you would like.

 

[mutthunt]

I never owned a lab, but spent the first several years hunting solely behind them. I now have a 10yo Draht and a 5yo Pudelpointer. I think pudels will be my dog from here on out. Lab like personality, but pointer like hunting. I've seen dogs of every kind that I wouldn't feed and others that I thought about stealing!

One thing, a well bred lab IMO needs 3 commands to take upland hunting...sit/stay/come. A pointer of any kind takes much more training as they are meant to be more independent hunters. I also go overboard in training so that might just be me.

A lab getting birdy and going nuts is freaking awesome, but a pointer running balls to the wall then ripping a point will take your breath away.