full or improved cylinder

niceshot said:
Maybe someone here knows if really cold temps affect the ballistic performance of shot shells
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Yes it does and I mentioned that above in my earlier post. Not only does cold air and especially cold dense air at this time of year affect velocity, it also negatively affects patterns as the cold dense air acts like an air brake. So it would only seem logical to shoot a tighter choke late in the year to attain the same pattern percentages that you once had in Sept/Oct with a more open choke. One only has to do his home work if curious and spend a little time at the patterning board.
 
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oldandnew said:
I grew up shooting improved cylinder, always shot very well for me. Two years ago I used a modified tube in my Winchester SX2 Light and noticed same number of hits, but dead birds, in the air for the most part. I patterned the tube and it's a light modified with lead, more like a skeet 2, on pheasants or anything else, wingshooting, almost all experts, gun writers, and wags would advise toward open chokes, for 95% of shooters, if birds in the bag are the goal. Most hunters lack the experience to calculate lead at over 40 yards. It's not about skill or talent, it's about experience, how many opportunities do you get to shoot a variety of shots on pheasants at ranges over 40 yards, in a lifetime, let alone a season? It would take an Argentine dove shoot to accumulate that kind of experience. I except and allow for anyone here to claim exemption to the 95% rule, and shoot extra full 3 1/2 " mags ala Elmer Keith, there are those who can use the extra range to advantage, most will be happier and more successful with an open choke. Just my observances, I consider myself as part of the 95% and practice what I preach.
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oandn ,

Your not wrong , But you left out a bunch. It's not about judging lead, but follow thought. Pheasants are not that fast, Quail arn't that fast. Most people with serious experience, With water fowl hunting, Will agree with me, on this point. You probably Shoot a lot of clays , like me, at club. Would you agree that most shotgunner cant shoot because they point, and don't Swing throught. At my trap club, at the end of the day, We have a long distance shoot behind the 27yard mark. It makes men out boy's. :)
 
birdshooter said:
Yes it does and I mentioned that above in my earlier post. Not only does cold air and especially cold dense air at this time of year affect velocity, it also negatively affects patterns as the cold dense air acts like an air brake.
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birdshooter, I should have read your post closer. I really appreciate your insights and always learn a lot from what you write. You have obviously hunted a few late season roosters in cold.
 
birdshooter said:
Yes it does and I mentioned that above in my earlier post. Not only does cold air and especially cold dense air at this time of year affect velocity, it also negatively affects patterns as the cold dense air acts like an air brake. So it would only seem logical to shoot a tighter choke late in the year to attain the same pattern percentages that you once had in Sept/Oct with a more open choke. One only has to do his home work if curious and spend a little time at the patterning board.
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I am sure that what you are saying is true. But what are we really talking about in a practical sense? It might be a bunch, but i would have to see the numbers.
 
JMac, I confess to trying to keep it simple, and there is nothing simple about long range shotgunning. Lead calculation surely entails follow through, fluid swing, and the mental gymnastics to know when to pull the trigger, once you swing through the target. I rest my case, unless you are able to spend a whole lot of time "shooting flying", as the Brits call it, not targets, although they help, ( but targets are decellerating while birds are excellerating, accounting for the myriad of world class shooters who routinely miss live game, might have something to with the exertion of a 2 mile hike in 20 degree weather too!), it requires a multitude of driven birds, doves, whatever to develope the skills to consistently utilize a tight choke at 40 yard+ targets. Waterfowl hunter get a lot more opportunities in the real world than us uplanders to perfect technique on long shot skills.
 
niceshot said:
birdshooter, I should have read your post closer. I really appreciate your insights and always learn a lot from what you write. You have obviously hunted a few late season roosters in cold.
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Niceshot, thanks I appreciate that, but it's more than just the hunting (yes that counts too), but spending a little time at the patterning board to find out what choke/load works best in any given situation. It doesn't tell you the whole story, but can be very insightful on what may work and what may not.

As far as how cold weather affects shotshell performance. Have you ever fired off a round in sub zero weather? You notice how sometimes the report sounds quite faint or hollow (almost just sounds like a pop) compared to the report when temps that are say 40-50 degrees warmer. When it gets that cold often times the powder burn can be incomplete. This can be especially true with slower burning powders that most high velocity hunting loads use. You combine that with the drag that the shot stream runs into when it hits that cold dense air and it's probably not uncommon to have velocity drops of a several hundred fps or so depending on the ammo and ambient air density. Sorry but I don't have the numbers on this, but I think you understand what I'm getting at.

You could also use the analogy of golfers reporting hitting shots much farther when playing on the higher altitude courses such as those in Colorado because of the less dense air up high, than at courses much closer to sea level.

So in retrospect... how does this affect the average guy pheasant hunting in cold temps?

Probably not much if he is still shooting his birds at closer ranges. But as the distances increase, the drop offs become more significant than they would at much warmer temps. NO I'll stick to my modified and #4's for late season, thank you very much :)
 
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oldandnew said:
JMac, I confess to trying to keep it simple, and there is nothing simple about long range shotgunning. Lead calculation surely entails follow through, fluid swing, and the mental gymnastics to know when to pull the trigger, once you swing through the target. I rest my case, unless you are able to spend a whole lot of time "shooting flying", as the Brits call it, not targets, although they help, ( but targets are decellerating while birds are excellerating, accounting for the myriad of world class shooters who routinely miss live game, might have something to with the exertion of a 2 mile hike in 20 degree weather too!), it requires a multitude of driven birds, doves, whatever to develope the skills to consistently utilize a tight choke at 40 yard+ targets. Waterfowl hunter get a lot more opportunities in the real world than us uplanders to perfect technique on long shot skills.
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Agreed, But it is so much fun ,to make the long range fold.:)
 
birdshooter said:
Have you ever fired off a round in sub zero weather? You notice how sometimes the report sounds quite faint or hollow (almost just sounds like a pop) compared to the report when temps that are say 40-50 degrees warmer. When it gets that cold often times the powder burn can be incomplete. This can be especially true with slower burning powders that most high velocity hunting loads use.
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Yes, I've heard that "pop", I think the temp was 4 below zero. Shot roosters that day at 15 yards, and was amazed they still gave my dog the business. birdshooter, do you ever go tighter than modified and what load do you like in really tough conditions?
 
I really haven't had to go tighter than modified. After doing some pattern testing I find that the Modified choke that I have for my Beretta 391 (Comp-N-Choke brand) actually patterns as good if not better than the factory supplied Modified. In fact I stick with the same choke throughout the season and just change loads going from 5's to 4's when the conditions call for it. I like to shoot the Kent Ultimate Fast Lead shells in 1⅜ oz. I have a lot of confidence in that choke tube and shells and we all know what confidence can do for our shooting. :thumbsup:
 
I shoot an older O/U with fixed M and IM chokes and I would have it no other way. I have pointing dogs but still prefer the tighter chokes, they allow me to take my time and make a better shot especially on multiple flushes. I will admit that there are times when a IC would be nice but I find myself taking long shots more often than not. But in all honesty it is like others have said it really is about finding a gun that fits good and practicing with it, then as long as there are no big holes in the pattern it shouldnt matter.
 
I have done quite a bit of wing shooting over the years. I use a variety of guns as I have a weak spot for shot guns. I have about 8 different guns in rotation at this time, be that over unders, side by sides, autos and pumps. All of these guns handle the same loads a bit different. Between dove, quail and pheasant hunting I shot around 5 to 6 hundred rounds a year at live targets. If I had to pick one and only one choke and shell combo for pheasant I would go with a Light Modified choke and Fiocchi Golden Pheasant number 5 1 3/4 once 3 " 12 ga They shoot at 1200 fps and carry a nice pay load. I have no problems dropping birds out to 40 yards with this combo, which for me is about the max range I will take a shot with this set up.
 
I think it would have been interesting if we could take a poll with this site so that everyone could have voted for their favorite pheasant choke. Obviously everyone has their opinion, no right or wrong answers. Much like the loads and guns they use. Stel67 just said in the previous post he likes 1 3/4 oz. 3" 12 ga. loads for pheasants. I'm sure most would agree, as would I, that a 3" 1 3/4oz load is overkill for pheasants. But heck, if it work for you, use it. I have no problem killing pheasants out to 40 yds. with a either a 16 ga. double choked IC/Mod and 1 1/8 oz. loads or my 12 ga. auto choked IC with 1 1/4 oz. loads. Works for me, but may not work for you. Who cares? :)
 
Inp. Mod, Full

Looks like you have a good combo working for you. #5 shell is about .12 and a #6 .11 - not much difference between the two.

I do notice a difference when I shoot 7.5's. Especially close shots with Imp. cyl.. 7.5 shot has 437 pellets vs. #5 at 212 pellets. I'll admit I cripple more with 7.5's, however my Golden has helped a great deal in bringing them to the bag!

I did use Remington, magnum, 6's, 3" with my 20 ga. and it made a difference - and they are very pricey!!

jon
 
No arguments there, the loads I use are for them flak jacket wearing pheasants. I usually hunt alone and with out a dog, so when I do finally get a rooster to flush in range I want to make sure he is way dead!


Dakotazeb said:
Stel67 just said in the previous post he likes 1 3/4 oz. 3" 12 ga. loads for pheasants. I'm sure most would agree, as would I, that a 3" 1 3/4oz load is overkill for pheasants. But heck, if it work for you, use it. I have no problem killing pheasants out to 40 yds. with a either a 16 ga. double choked IC/Mod and 1 1/8 oz. loads or my 12 ga. auto choked IC with 1 1/4 oz. loads. Works for me, but may not work for you. Who cares? :)
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Dakotazeb said:
I think it would have been interesting if we could take a poll with this site so that everyone could have voted for their favorite pheasant choke. Obviously everyone has their opinion, no right or wrong answers. Much like the loads and guns they use. Stel67 just said in the previous post he likes 1 3/4 oz. 3" 12 ga. loads for pheasants. I'm sure most would agree, as would I, that a 3" 1 3/4oz load is overkill for pheasants. But heck, if it work for you, use it. I have no problem killing pheasants out to 40 yds. with a either a 16 ga. double choked IC/Mod and 1 1/8 oz. loads or my 12 ga. auto choked IC with 1 1/4 oz. loads. Works for me, but may not work for you. Who cares? :)
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Great point Zeb, All this banter is Personel Choise. If it works for you keep it.That's what makes this forum Great. I've learned a lot from what has been stated on this thread. No right or wrong. And no Screaming. Just good discussion. :cheers:
 
Dakotazeb said:
I think it would have been interesting if we could take a poll with this site so that everyone could have voted for their favorite pheasant choke. Obviously everyone has their opinion, no right or wrong answers. Much like the loads and guns they use. Stel67 just said in the previous post he likes 1 3/4 oz. 3" 12 ga. loads for pheasants. I'm sure most would agree, as would I, that a 3" 1 3/4oz load is overkill for pheasants. But heck, if it work for you, use it. I have no problem killing pheasants out to 40 yds. with a either a 16 ga. double choked IC/Mod and 1 1/8 oz. loads or my 12 ga. auto choked IC with 1 1/4 oz. loads. Works for me, but may not work for you. Who cares? :)
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Internet boards would all go a lot smoother if more people adopted your attitude.
:thumbsup:
 
Ok ZEB, Your wish was my command, Your shotgun choke poll is now in Guns And Ammo. Go vote everyone, lets see which one wins.........Bob
 
You are a little late Wesslpointer, about 75 votes have been cast. If you want all that stuff included. You can set up the poll for that. Did you vote in my inadequate poll?......Bob
 
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