From Brookings County Wildlife Federation on ...
- Thread starter Weimdogman
- Start date
nastymcnarf
Member
This isn't the first time we've seen this. The instinct to shut it down is understandable. But it's not a solution. You can't stock pile pheasants. Spring weather and nesting cover quality will do more for next year's pheasant population than any effort we make to limit rooster harvests until this season closes. There will still be several months of winter the birds have to brave. Truth is, the fewer roosters we carry from this point on to the spring the better it is for the hens.
Weimdogman
Well-known member
The thing we can do is talk to our legislators about the need for changing legislation to benefit wildlife. If it's allowing trees in crp and or conservation easements or changing taxation on ground for habitat.
BRITTMAN
Well-known member
Agree - hunting is typically compensatory, but can certainly become additive in certain situations. Compensatory mortality is typically a corner stone of most any fish or wildlife management strategy.
Let's look at snow geese. They are now hunted 9+ months of the year. Down the flyway in the fall, all winter and then back up the flyway in the spring. Hunting essentially makes no impact on the snow goose population ... compensatory mortality.
Pheasants
> only roosters are killed during hunting season
> there is no doubt that a tough winter will kill more pheasants than hunting ... ESPECIALLY HENS
> the idea that roosters push out hens resulting in their death is likely more of an empirical observation than based on data driven analytics
if someone has a Wildlife Journal article (peer reviewed and published) please share
> beyond winter, habitat and spring/summer nesting and brood rearing weather is the other key component
When lakes are about to winter kill they are opened to no limit fishing, but these lakes are then restocked. With pheasants (and even deer) when winter sets in early ... you cannot immediately improve habitat, but you can do things to lower winter impact in some areas.
Trees - that are not a slam dunk solution. You need to construct winter habitat shelterbelts with the idea of not creating avian predator paradise. A tiered food plot nearby would also be ideal. The USF&WS has mostly moved the opposite direction ... eliminating trees from many WPAs.
This :
Let's look at snow geese. They are now hunted 9+ months of the year. Down the flyway in the fall, all winter and then back up the flyway in the spring. Hunting essentially makes no impact on the snow goose population ... compensatory mortality.
Pheasants
> only roosters are killed during hunting season
> there is no doubt that a tough winter will kill more pheasants than hunting ... ESPECIALLY HENS
> the idea that roosters push out hens resulting in their death is likely more of an empirical observation than based on data driven analytics
if someone has a Wildlife Journal article (peer reviewed and published) please share
> beyond winter, habitat and spring/summer nesting and brood rearing weather is the other key component
When lakes are about to winter kill they are opened to no limit fishing, but these lakes are then restocked. With pheasants (and even deer) when winter sets in early ... you cannot immediately improve habitat, but you can do things to lower winter impact in some areas.
Trees - that are not a slam dunk solution. You need to construct winter habitat shelterbelts with the idea of not creating avian predator paradise. A tiered food plot nearby would also be ideal. The USF&WS has mostly moved the opposite direction ... eliminating trees from many WPAs.
This :
BRITTMAN
Well-known member
This is something that Pheasants Forever (or local wildlife clubs) could promote with their fundraising ...
PF could use $$ to help create and maintain these winter plots on larger existing management areas. Too often G&F departments lack the financial resources to even maintain existing properties let alone improve them.
They could also provide free biologist support to landowners on private land willing to do the same.
PF could use $$ to help create and maintain these winter plots on larger existing management areas. Too often G&F departments lack the financial resources to even maintain existing properties let alone improve them.
They could also provide free biologist support to landowners on private land willing to do the same.
Chestle
Well-known member
For the reasons mentioned, it doesn't make sense to close the season early at this point. Just not that many people out hunting now.
I get the idea of the compensatory mortality thing. However....why then have a 3 rooster limit? Why not 4 or 5? A couple more shouldn't be additive right?
I think though that weather and habit are the deciding factors when compensatory switches to additive. Not much can be done about weather. It is what it is, to coin a phrase.
Habitat is a different story. They added the $25 Habitat Stamp. Time to get off some rear ends and get that money into really GOOD habitat on state owned hunting areas. Like the tree row/corn combo mentioned above. I haven't been too impressed to date with state owned habitat.
Just my .02.
I get the idea of the compensatory mortality thing. However....why then have a 3 rooster limit? Why not 4 or 5? A couple more shouldn't be additive right?
I think though that weather and habit are the deciding factors when compensatory switches to additive. Not much can be done about weather. It is what it is, to coin a phrase.
Habitat is a different story. They added the $25 Habitat Stamp. Time to get off some rear ends and get that money into really GOOD habitat on state owned hunting areas. Like the tree row/corn combo mentioned above. I haven't been too impressed to date with state owned habitat.
Just my .02.
Miforester
Well-known member
The response is very appropriate. Back in the early years/ decades of hunting pheasants in the Dakotas the bag limits were very generous and season was pretty liberal as well. I would say as habitat started to lessen with settlements and better game management it was determined the liberal bag limits which included hens was not sustainable and they implemented smaller bag limits and season. Habitat will alwatys be the key to sustaining a wildlife population.
Part of habitat management is ensuringvthe species has all they need in a relatively small area. I implement this with our forest management and grouse and woodcock habitat. Instead of harvesting a large block of aspen, i will have our foresters set up checker board patterns to have at least 4 differnt age classes of at least yrs difference. In this example i can go from prviding habitat for 1 or 2 breeding pairs to 5 or 6. Different species but the concept is the same.
Prairie Drifter might be able to weigh in on bag numbers and if Kansas' 4 bird limt has had a cumulative impact on population numbers.
Happy New Year and im jealous of all you who still get to hunt wild birds into January!
Part of habitat management is ensuringvthe species has all they need in a relatively small area. I implement this with our forest management and grouse and woodcock habitat. Instead of harvesting a large block of aspen, i will have our foresters set up checker board patterns to have at least 4 differnt age classes of at least yrs difference. In this example i can go from prviding habitat for 1 or 2 breeding pairs to 5 or 6. Different species but the concept is the same.
Prairie Drifter might be able to weigh in on bag numbers and if Kansas' 4 bird limt has had a cumulative impact on population numbers.
Happy New Year and im jealous of all you who still get to hunt wild birds into January!
I am not wildlife biologist I am just a guy that has hunted the same land for about 60 years. I have run a hunting business for about 20 years. In the example I mentioned earlier when we shot our limit in 20 minutes because all the pheasants were in the only good cover available, when we forced those birds to leave the cover they were already suffering, and we made it worse. I have no idea how many dead hens I saw the next day but it is why I am trying to make this point. I have no problem with thinning out the roosters but if you cause a group of weakened hens to die doing it, it isn't helping. Maybe if I was just a hunter I would not feel this way. In fact I did feel this way until that event happened. I have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars to maintain a wild pheasant population here, so I look at this differently. I think of myself as the steward of the wildlife on my land so that probably makes me weird. Not many people on here that are in my boots.
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Bob Peters
Well-known member
Just because people aren't in your boots doesn't mean they don't have similar opinions on the subject.
Miforester
Well-known member
Very true Bob. I equate it tobthise who flush a covey of quail and shot most or all of the birds. What Haymaker is/has done for management is exceptional.
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Thank you and Bob too. I have seen one live hen since the weather has let up. I have not looked for any as I don't want to disturb them.
BRITTMAN
Well-known member
I would argue that the "retired" biologist may not have a complete data set to determine if even lightly pressured pheasants hunted in a rough winter and in a full January extended SD season moves the bar from compensatory to additive. As haymaker notes and others have observed ... pressuring weakened birds just may result in death vs. holding on ...
There are plenty of wildlife management theories that have not proven to be 100% correct over time.
Regarding limits ... in theory, limits may not matter, but limits are often set from a human ethics and hunter population perception basis. MN moves from a 2-bird to a 3-bird limit on December 1st of each year. It is likely done because of "perspectives, opinions, and politics" and not because of any biological harvest perspective. The delay may spread out the harvest some (I suppose).
There are many that believe ruffed grouse limits of 5 are too high during late winter portions of the season.
There are plenty of wildlife management theories that have not proven to be 100% correct over time.
Regarding limits ... in theory, limits may not matter, but limits are often set from a human ethics and hunter population perception basis. MN moves from a 2-bird to a 3-bird limit on December 1st of each year. It is likely done because of "perspectives, opinions, and politics" and not because of any biological harvest perspective. The delay may spread out the harvest some (I suppose).
There are many that believe ruffed grouse limits of 5 are too high during late winter portions of the season.
Weimdogman
Well-known member
As to the last part of your post I am 100% sure p.o.p. (politics opinions perspective) influence season lengths and bag limits.
As to the retired biologist - As I have posted before- the whole environment has changed and almost none of it has been beneficial for pheasants. I thought it was interesting the biologist ascertained that shelterbelts were the key to winter survival. Shelterbelts and stands of trees found around farmstead have been being ripped out for years. His idea of many rows surely included fruit or berry producing tres / shrubs. Fruit berries nuts always attract insects so there are 2 food sources.
Fewer cattle , hogs ,sheep ,chicken around the decreasing # of farms/ranches. Cattle scratching around in stubble fields do a lot for wildlife
Farming fencerow to fencerow has even gotten worse as there is often no fencerow.
Farming right to the edge of sloughs mean the sloughs drift in worse. We seem to get wetter(more rain) falls so those sloughs have nothing but ice for a base. Tiling has added to some and eliminated other cover spots.
Pesticides,herbicides, and on and on.
Golden Hour
Well-known member
Hunted a large cattail slough yesterday on some private land a farmer friend owns. They are feeding cattle in the corn stubble adjacent to the cattails and there were deer, turkeys and pheasants alongside the cattle. Some pheasants were out scratching.
I've recently considered putting up a snow fence on the northwest side of the cattail slough on the property I manage for habitat as a stop gap measure until the trees I've planted mature enough to do effectively the same job.
I've also wished that some type of tracking device could be put on pheasants. When winter gets like this, I'm curious as to how far the pheasants will migrate to find suitable habitat. We are blessed in this area that, while there isn't a huge population of pheasants, there is a relatively large number of people doing great conservation work. That's the only thing that keeps the pheasants alive, even then, it can be a challenge. But choosing to hunt ultimately falls on the shoulders of the hunters and the landowners who might grant access.
I've recently considered putting up a snow fence on the northwest side of the cattail slough on the property I manage for habitat as a stop gap measure until the trees I've planted mature enough to do effectively the same job.
I've also wished that some type of tracking device could be put on pheasants. When winter gets like this, I'm curious as to how far the pheasants will migrate to find suitable habitat. We are blessed in this area that, while there isn't a huge population of pheasants, there is a relatively large number of people doing great conservation work. That's the only thing that keeps the pheasants alive, even then, it can be a challenge. But choosing to hunt ultimately falls on the shoulders of the hunters and the landowners who might grant access.
remy3424
Well-known member
We just received about a half inch of ice, temps are not bad and very little snow, but it will be Sunday before we see any temps above freezing. I am now debating if I need to be out stirring them up this final weekend. Our sorghum food plots should be perfect for this situation. I was going to put out a few piles of course sand for easy grit for them, but the weekend I was going to do it, we got a rare rain and then it frozen...it will be a little spring habitat work now.
I would also be VERY interested in seeing the travel habits of local birds in their struggle for food and shelter, more so in the winter than the other season. This has to have happened or could happen. I know I have read about quail being outfitted with tracking devices.
OT....GH, I am not sure I have seen a video here, with the habitat you are managing this season. A few more years and those cedars should start making a difference. I am wondering if they grow as fast as ones down here (maybe 150ish miles south of you, warmer and usually more rain here). Love seeing habitat this generation has created. I would like to find someone with a drone to get some pics of ours to share.
I would also be VERY interested in seeing the travel habits of local birds in their struggle for food and shelter, more so in the winter than the other season. This has to have happened or could happen. I know I have read about quail being outfitted with tracking devices.
OT....GH, I am not sure I have seen a video here, with the habitat you are managing this season. A few more years and those cedars should start making a difference. I am wondering if they grow as fast as ones down here (maybe 150ish miles south of you, warmer and usually more rain here). Love seeing habitat this generation has created. I would like to find someone with a drone to get some pics of ours to share.
Golden Hour
Well-known member
Funny you should mention that. I've got a video waiting in the wings and will probably make it public here in a couple days of a hunt I did there the day after Christmas. I took my wife there once and my dad once, but this latest hunt was the first time I stepped into the large cattail slough. I like to give them a haven until I can't stand it any longer.
I've got a couple little "corners" that I'm putting in some trees that will leave a small gap between the trees and cattails that I'm hoping I can get some sorghum put in. Regardless, with big cattails and corn, the pheasants have found themselves a nice home. Save the pretty ones who wait a little to long before flushing!
carptom1
Well-known member
I would like to know that too. Years ago I had access to a farm in Jones county which is the western fringes of decent populations. The farm was spread out north to south 7-8 miles. In the early season through late November, you could find birds in either location. In December you could forget about the north because those birds would migrate down to the south where the cattails and trees were. The next year they would spread out again it was like a mini migration of sorts. Kind of dispelled my belief of them staying in a small area. They have amazing instincts to survive