food

I assume you are talking about ProPlan Sport 30/20?? It is suppose to be for all ages and I'm sure would work fine, but like Brittman I prefer to feed my pups a "puppy formula" for the first year like ProPlan Puppy Chicken & Rice Formula. Either one, you can't go wrong.
 
Can anyone tell me the difference between puppy and adult? I know that they often advertise a difference, but when it comes to reading the actual ingredients, I never really was able to tell. I'd love to know though.
I've always just fed adult stuff to my pups. They seemed to turn out fine.
 
www.purina.com

How Long to Feed Puppy Food & Switching to Adult Dog Food

Learn how long to feed puppy food and when to switch to adult dog food by better understanding the nutritional requirements for small, medium and large breed dogs.
www.purina.com www.purina.com

Purina is probably the leading manufacturer when it comes to spending money on canine nutrition and research.
Puppy food is generally higher in calories then adult formulas as they are growing. However, there are puppy formulas based on the size of the breed. Larger breeds should grow slower to prevent growth plate issues. Too fast could bring on joint issues as an adult. As the article states when to switch over to adult formula depends on the size of the breed.
 
What to feed might be the second most debated gun dog topic, behind only what breed is best. Of course, everyone knows that is Labs...

In my formative years as a trainer I was taught to feed a puppy formula for the first 16-18 months. Some switch to adult formula at 12 months and I can't fault them for that choice.

If I were you, I would go with a puppy formula, any premium brand will work fine. Purina Pro Plan, Eukanuba, Diamond, 4Health (TSC's signature brand) ect, are all high quality. Stay away the cheap stuff and the types they sell at grocery stores & Walmart like Ol' Roy, Purina One, ect. The reason they are cheaper is that they use lower quality ingredients. Your dog will poop more and get less nutrition.

30/20 Performance is meant for dogs that are working hard. In my experience 30/20 is pretty high for a year round adult food unless your dog is training hard in the off season as well as working hard during the hunting season. I used to feed a Large Breed Adult formula
(26/13-16 ratio) food in the off season and switch to Performance (30/20) food during hunting season. Eventually I settled on a Large Breed Adult formula year round.

One of the best pieces of pro advice I got early on is that the amount chart on the bag are general suggestions, so watch the dog, not it's bowl. In other words if your dog is putting on weight cut it back, if it's skinny feed it more. I have 2 dogs that get 2.5 cups a day, one that gets 3, and one with high energy and a metabolism like a ferret on a double expresso (Harley), that get's 4 to 4.5 a day. During hunting season I bump up the amount a bit and I will supplement that with some premium wet food when they are really putting on the miles. Harley gets Pro Plan, the other three get 4Health. May switch everyone back to Pro Plan Large Breed Adult for simplicity sake...
 
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V-John said:
Can anyone tell me the difference between puppy and adult? I know that they often advertise a difference, but when it comes to reading the actual ingredients, I never really was able to tell. I'd love to know though.
I've always just fed adult stuff to my pups. They seemed to turn out fine.
Click to expand...

I would agree, very little difference. Guess that would be a question to ask Purina. Here's the comparison.

This is the ProPlan Chicken & Rice Puppy formula:

Ingredients & Nutrition​


Chicken, rice, poultry by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole grain wheat, beef fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols, whole grain corn, corn germ meal, dried yeast, fish meal, dried egg product, natural flavor, fish oil, soybean oil, salt, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, mono and dicalcium phosphate, choline chloride, MINERALS [zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite], L-Lysine monohydrochloride, VITAMINS [Vitamin E supplement, niacin (Vitamin B-3), Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate (Vitamin B-5), thiamine mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Vitamin B-12 supplement, riboflavin supplement (Vitamin B-2), pyridoxine hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), folic acid (Vitamin B-9), menadione sodium bisulfite complex (Vitamin K), Vitamin D-3 supplement, biotin (Vitamin B-7)], dried Bacillus coagulans fermentation product, garlic oil. X445819
Manufactured and Guaranteed by: Nestlé Purina PetCare Company, St. Louis, MO 63164 USA
Animal feeding tests using AAFCO procedures substantiate that Pro Plan Puppy Chicken & Rice Formula provides complete and balanced nutrition for all life stages, including growth of large sized dogs (70 lb. or more as an adult).

​

LEARN MORE ABOUT OUR INGREDIENTS
every-ingredient-has-a-purpose

Guaranteed Analysis​

�
Crude Protein (Min)28.0%
Crude Fat (Min)18.0%
Crude Fiber (Max)3.0%
Moisture (Max)12.0%
Linoleic Acid (Min)1.6%
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) (Min)0.1%
Calcium (Ca) (Min)1.1%
Phosphorus (P) (Min)0.9%
Vitamin A (Min)15,000 IU/kg
Vitamin E (Min)100 IU/kg
Omega-6 Fatty Acids* (Min)1.8%
Bacillus coagulans* (Min)600 million CFU/lb
*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.

This is the Pro Plan Sport 30/20 Chicken & Rice

Ingredients & Nutrition​


Chicken, corn gluten meal, rice, beef fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols, poultry by-product meal (source of glucosamine), whole grain corn, corn germ meal, dried egg product, fish meal (source of glucosamine), natural flavor, fish oil, mono and dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, salt, VITAMINS [Vitamin E supplement, niacin (Vitamin B-3), Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate (Vitamin B-5), thiamine mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Vitamin B-12 supplement, riboflavin supplement (Vitamin B-2), pyridoxine hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), folic acid (Vitamin B-9), menadione sodium bisulfite complex (Vitamin K), Vitamin D-3 supplement, biotin (Vitamin B-7)], choline chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, magnesium sulfate, MINERALS [zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite], L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (Vitamin C), dried Bacillus coagulans fermentation product, garlic oil. Y446119
Manufactured and Guaranteed by: Nestlé Purina PetCare Company, St. Louis, MO 63164 USA
Animal feeding tests using AAFCO procedures substantiate that Pro Plan Performance 30/20 Chicken & Rice Formula provides complete and balanced nutrition for all life stages, including growth of large sized dogs (70 lb. or more as an adult).
LEARN MORE ABOUT OUR INGREDIENTS
every-ingredient-has-a-purpose

Guaranteed Analysis​

�
Crude Protein (Min)30.0%
Crude Fat (Min)20.0%
Crude Fiber (Max)3.0%
Moisture (Max)12.0%
Linoleic Acid (Min)1.8%
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) (Min)0.12%
Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA) (Min)0.12%
Calcium (Ca) (Min)1.1%
Phosphorus (P) (Min)0.9%
Selenium (Se) (Min)0.35 mg/kg
Vitamin A (Min)15,000 IU/kg
Vitamin E (Min)500 IU/kg
Ascorbic Acid* (Min)100 mg/kg
Glucosamine* (Min)500 ppm
Omega-6 Fatty Acids* (Min)1.9%
Bacillus coagulans* (Min)600 million CFU/lb
*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.
 
I feed my GSP the premium Lloyal brand 30/20. Was wondering if anyone else did the same and what are your thoughts concerning the product. In doing research the ingredients & process of manufacturing the dog food seems to be impressive.
 
The dry kibble that I have chosen to feed my dogs is Farmina brand grain free formula.
It is the only manufacturer I know of who specifies the percentage of protein that is animal based.
It is among few that I know of that use ingredients that pass human grade quality.
The food is manufactured under European standards which are more stringent than U.S. standards.
I sometimes supplement half portions with fresh ground whole chicken of other fresh meats and vegetables, grains etc..

It's my understanding that animal feed grade of grains, especially corn, can tend to have some negative health impacts in dogs over the long term. Here is a link to the Farmina at outlined on the "Dog Food Advisor" web site.
https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/farmina-nd-pumpkin-grain-free-dog-food/

Here is Dog Food Advisor's listing for Purina Pro Plan
https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/purina-pro-plan-sport/
 
huntsem said:
The dry kibble that I have chosen to feed my dogs is Farmina brand grain free formula.
It is the only manufacturer I know of who specifies the percentage of protein that is animal based.
It is among few that I know of that use ingredients that pass human grade quality.
The food is manufactured under European standards which are more stringent than U.S. standards.
I sometimes supplement half portions with fresh ground whole chicken of other fresh meats and vegetables, grains etc..

It's my understanding that animal feed grade of grains, especially corn, can tend to have some negative health impacts in dogs over the long term. Here is a link to the Farmina at outlined on the "Dog Food Advisor" web site.
https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/farmina-nd-pumpkin-grain-free-dog-food/

Here is Dog Food Advisor's listing for Purina Pro Plan
https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/purina-pro-plan-sport/
Click to expand...
Rather then get in a pissing contest about quality dog feed, I'll just say this. Be careful about 'grain free' dog food and it's link to DCM. As someone who lost a dog to DCM, I'll never feed a dog 'grain free' feed anymore.
 
V-John said:
Rather then get in a pissing contest about quality dog feed, I'll just say this. Be careful about 'grain free' dog food and it's link to DCM. As someone who lost a dog to DCM, I'll never feed a dog 'grain free' feed anymore.
Click to expand...

huntsem said:
Not all grain free dog foods are the same. Do your research. No pissing contest required. See; https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-...-link-between-diet-and-heart-disease-in-dogs/
Click to expand...
I have. You can worship at the grounds of "dog food advisor" all you want. I can easily find research to the contrary, linking grain-free to DCM. Just depends on what studies you choose to believe. I've seen it, and experienced DCM in my dog. No amount of "dog food advisor" advice or some random dude on an internet board will convince me to feed grain free. I watched my dog slowly deteriorate and even though I quit 'grain free' there wasn't a damn thing about it. I was spending over 150 bucks a month on meds- he was taking over 10 pills a day. I can remember his last days and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Frankly, I don't give a damn what you feed your dogs... If you want to boast about the food meeting European standards, that's great for you! I'll stick to Purina Pro Plan and go from there.
My statement was more to the rest of the board - but in the end feed what makes you comfortable and do your own DD.
 
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V-John said:
I have. You can worship at the grounds of "dog food advisor" all you want. I can easily find research to the contrary, linking grain-free to DCM. Just depends on what studies you choose to believe. I've seen it, and experienced DCM in my dog. No amount of "dog food advisor" advice or some random blowhard on an internet board will convince me to feed grain free.
Frankly, I don't give a damn what you feed your dogs... If you want to boast about the food meeting European standards, that's great for you! I'll stick to Purina Pro Plan and go from there.
My statement was more to the rest of the board - but in the end feed what makes you comfortable and do your own DD.
Click to expand...
I totally agree. I do not put much, if any, stock in what Dog Food Advisor says. If you notice, they always rate grain free and organic foods at the top. There is nothing wrong with grain, including corn, in your dogs food. As has been said numerous times on this site when it comes to dog foods. Purina ProPlan is probably fed by more breeders and field trialers than any other brand. I've fed many different brands over the years, including grain-free formulas, but always seem to come back to ProPlan. I just see so many dogs doing extremely well on ProPlan and living healthy, long lives.
 
Switched all around multiple times. Always ended up back with Purinea. Start with puppy and move to adult. We train year around, primarily in agility, but also in the field so we go with the higher calorie count. We watch for ribs and make sure we can find them or the dog is in for a diet.
 
V-John said:
I have. You can worship at the grounds of "dog food advisor" all you want. I can easily find research to the contrary, linking grain-free to DCM. Just depends on what studies you choose to believe. I've seen it, and experienced DCM in my dog. No amount of "dog food advisor" advice or some random blowhard on an internet board will convince me to feed grain free.
Frankly, I don't give a damn what you feed your dogs... If you want to boast about the food meeting European standards, that's great for you! I'll stick to Purina Pro Plan and go from there.
My statement was more to the rest of the board - but in the end feed what makes you comfortable and do your own DD.
Click to expand...
In defense of the Dog Food Advisor link that I posted regarding grain free dog foods and the subject of dilated cardiomyopath or DCM the reporting is legitimate scientific and up to date research data.

The objective science and up to date research on the subject does not just depend "on what studies you choose to believe."
When viewed objectively it's clearly apparent that the Dog Food Advisor's report is a legitimate effort to pass on unbiased data that is intended to be helpful to better inform the public without bias.

See;

FDA Investigating Potential Link Between Diet and Heart Disease in Dogs​

www.dogfoodadvisor.com

FDA Investigating Potential Link Between Diet and Heart Disease in Dogs | Dog Food Advisor

The Dog Food Advisor's latest update regarding the FDA's ongoing investigation into the possible link between grain-free diet and heart disease in dogs.
www.dogfoodadvisor.com www.dogfoodadvisor.com
 
Exactly my point. I can easily find a peer reviewed, published scientific study done by the University of California Davis leading to a connection between DCM and taurine deficiency.
journals.plos.org

Taurine deficiency and dilated cardiomyopathy in golden retrievers fed commercial diets

Introduction Golden retrievers are over-represented in cases of taurine-deficient dilated cardiomyopathy and recently a surge in cases has prompted further investigation. Objective To describe the clinical, dietary, and echocardiographic features in golden retrievers diagnosed with taurine...
journals.plos.org journals.plos.org

Granted, the research is what, a year and half, old?
What I did like was the breed used in the study is a breed owned by many on this board.
In fact, the study you quote refers to the one I quote, which was interesting. Here it is cut and paste...

"Veterinary cardiologist Dr. Joshua Stern from the University of California at Davis has been studying the rise in cases of DCM in Golden Retrievers, including a potential dietary link. Many cases of DCM in Golden Retrievers are taurine-deficient. Pet owners who suspect their Golden Retrievers may be affected may wish to consult their veterinarian to discuss checking taurine levels or conducting an echocardiogram."

Here's an excerpt from another article with a link to a study done by my alma mater - Good ole Kansas State University...

news.vin.com

FDA: Pet diet remains 'a potential factor' in DCM cases

Pet food company claimed agency cleared grain-free diets in heart disease puzzle
news.vin.com news.vin.com

"Now let me turn to the actions FDA scientists took with respect to these reports. We analyzed multiple sources of information, including medical records – which I already mentioned – environmental exposure, animal diagnostic samples, and diets. When possible, we obtained case information on the dogs’ dietary history. For the diets in the reports, we examined the ingredient panel and looked for trends in the types of protein reported in the dogs’ diets. We found a wide variety of proteins, including chicken, lamb, salmon, whitefish, kangaroo, turkey, and beef, but the data did not show any correlations related to protein. When we had food samples available, our scientists considered a wide variety of nutritional components, including protein, fat, moisture, fiber, starch, vitamins and minerals, and metals. Then we looked for trends related to grains, or rather, the lack of grains. More than 90 percent of products, according to their labels or label ingredients, were “grain-free.” These products did not contain corn, soy, wheat, rice, barley, or other grains. Ninety-three percent of reported products had what appeared from the ingredient panel to be high proportions of peas or lentils or both. A small percent of reported products contained potatoes, including sweet potatoes, in the ingredient list. A pattern emerged. Dogs in cases submitted to FDA were reported to have consumed diets containing high proportions of pulse ingredients, which are dried legume seeds, including peas, chickpeas, and lentils. We knew the proportions were high because of how these ingredients were listed or ordered on the product label, in descending order by quantity. Again, many of these diets were labeled as “grain-free,” and they didn’t contain corn, wheat, or other traditional pet food grain ingredients."

Like I said earlier, I don't give a damn what you feed your dogs. I know what I dealt with in Radar and his DCM... It was very difficult and he didn't have the great fortune of just keeling over dead, like some of my friends dogs and their DCM. I post only for others to be aware of, and make their own decisions. Do your own DD.

Now I gotta get back to my Qualitative research book. Ugh.

huntsem said:
The objective science and up to date research on the subject does not just depend "on what studies you choose to believe."
When viewed objectively it's clearly apparent that the Dog Food Advisor's report is a legitimate effort to pass on unbiased data that is intended to be helpful to better inform the public without bias.
Click to expand...
 
I should know better than to comment on a dog food thread but what the heck.
Dog Food Advisor is as reliable as a $25 car. I'm sure if someone was to "follow the money" it would be real telling.
 
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