Flushers that point

jeffstally

jeffstally

Member
What are your thoughts on training a flusher to point?

I personally feel that you may as well get a pointer if you want your dog to point. I want my springers to flush hard and my setter to hold a point.
 
jeffstally said:
What are your thoughts on training a flusher to point?

I personally feel that you may as well get a pointer if you want your dog to point. I want my springers to flush hard and my setter to hold a point.
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My thoughts are exactly the same as the late, great Kenneth Roebuck on this issue.

"This is not a subject to be seriously discussed amongst Gentlemen."
 
jeffstally said:
What are your thoughts on training a flusher to point?

I personally feel that you may as well get a pointer if you want your dog to point. I want my springers to flush hard and my setter to hold a point.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%.....but I am chicken to say more.
 
I agree as well, the issue we are dancing around is the Lab, I am unaware of any other traditional flushers who have "evolved" into pointers. The reality is that until 40 years ago Labs were largely nonslip retrievers both as waterfowl dogs as well as the uplands. Even now the British field trial is a walk up, at heel, affair. The US parent club specifically states in the bylaws, that Labs don't point. Off course they do! With number 1 breed status, the Lab has become almost a species instead of a breed, with it's subspecies, the pointing Lab, the Show lab, the field trial lab. Many of the bench winners are incapable of field work, and sorry to say, a lot of the field dogs don't resemble the breed standard. The way you become number 1 is to be smart and versatile enough to be a NY apartment dweller, and smart enough to learn to a variety of skills. I have pointing dogs to hunt with, and always have, I have had a couple of outstanding labs, neither pointed, but I have no doubt they could have been trained to. I don't want my labs to point, but I have no real arguement against a guy who does. In the south pointers routinely don't retrieve, a lab,springer, or boykin spaniel does that as the pointers go on seeking birds. I ask my pointing dogs to retrieve, so asking a lab to point seems like not such a stretch. I see the same arguement with the shorthair, brittany, and other versatile breeds, ask to run horseback trials, like pointers, and setters, a game they were not designed to do. like the lab as a pointing dog, the continentals of pure extractions, can't match an all age pointer or setter at that game, so why don't those guys just get pointers or setters? It's wired into the DNA of man to tinker with things. If we hadn't first tried to turn every versatile breed into horseback,ridge running high strung,kennel dogs. And allowed them to be what they excelled at, companion, close working, foot hunting dogs, maybe the pointing lab owners would have one,instead of trying to gin one up,by converting the lab.
 
jeffstally said:
What are your thoughts on training a flusher to point?

I personally feel that you may as well get a pointer if you want your dog to point. I want my springers to flush hard and my setter to hold a point.
Click to expand...

Never have trained one to point! They point naturally,,,,,
 
I have labs that naturally point and with style. The offspring also point. I never pursued these blood lines for point but for the retrieving talent. They are very talented retrievers and run hunt test and field trials during the summer and hunt upland all winter. I love the fact they point since I'm not the best shot. I find it odd that there is so much discussion on pointing labs. I do love pointing breeds and would have a GSP if I had room. With that said I figure if a lab has it great if not that's cool too. I believe the nose is most important. Just glad we all have sporting breeds that get to work. Good luck with the hunt point or flush!
 
I have a pointing lab that I absolutely love. He is a great flushing dog but will lock up and hold steady. Most every lab will show a flash point but will not hold. I would not have it any other way. I hunt with too many dogs that all they do is point and they run past more birds than they point. My dog put a pointer to shame today... which is typical where I hunt. With that said... there is a place for a pointer and I truly do think that if I hunted at a club or on a preserve all the time I would own a full fledged pointer, but I duck hunt too much to not have a lab.
 
just curious

Jeff I was curious if you have ever hunted behind a pointing lab? I own a lab out of chave dakota's male, she has always been a hard charging flusher, we hunted a preserve on thursday and the birds were holding tight. All of a sudden she goes on point. I flush and shoot the bird. no training, no prompting, all natural. The best thing about a pointing lab is you can shoot the birds even if there "bumped".

I am wondering if anyone is finding that the dogs out of pointing lines tend to have a higher prey drive, with a better nose, and make a better upland dog than those of a more waterfowl only lines.

On a side note do you forcefetch your pointers? Pointers that retrieve, whats your thoughts on those.

Before anyone gets to excited, it may help to know that I have both the lab and a young gsp. It's also tough to convey sarcasm through the internet.:p
 
I know of a few pointers that are Forced Fetched, especially in the BDC games., it does make a big difference not taking a 5 point loss for a half retrieve.
 
Keskam, that comment was tongue in cheek. I personaly believe all gundogs should be forcefetched, as I believe it teaches alot more than fetch. Others disagree, and that is fine. I don't feel that everyone has to have my veiwpoint. I just think the pointing lab argument is stupid, as long as you are hunting with a dog, you're ok in my IMO. even if it's a blue heeler.:cheers:
 
Feasant Fever; It was great hunting with you guys yesterday. I love watching your dog work and in fact I like hunting with her when she listens to me so well. If she is for give away I' ll take her. I adverstised my pups on here last night. Will see how the sucess is. Have a BIRDY Christmas.:cheers:
 
No, I have not hunted over one. Someone I hunt with is looking into them so I may eventually do so. I am not trying to be snooty about it, obviously pointing labs work great and people shoot tons of birds with them. I wanted to hear the argument in favor of them.

My thought is that dogs breeds developed over hundreds of years by people that had to put food on the table or starve. The pointing lab is relatively new so I wonder how they are as opposed to other more "established" breeds.

Smeone that I hunt with has a golden that started pointing and he got all excited about it. I wondered why the hell he didn't just get a pointer to begin with.


feasantfever said:
Jeff I was curious if you have ever hunted behind a pointing lab? I own a lab out of chave dakota's male, she has always been a hard charging flusher, we hunted a preserve on thursday and the birds were holding tight. All of a sudden she goes on point. I flush and shoot the bird. no training, no prompting, all natural. The best thing about a pointing lab is you can shoot the birds even if there "bumped".

I am wondering if anyone is finding that the dogs out of pointing lines tend to have a higher prey drive, with a better nose, and make a better upland dog than those of a more waterfowl only lines.

On a side note do you forcefetch your pointers? Pointers that retrieve, whats your thoughts on those.

Before anyone gets to excited, it may help to know that I have both the lab and a young gsp. It's also tough to convey sarcasm through the internet.:p
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I agree, if you want a pointing dog buy an established pointing breed. I feel that the pointing lab fills a niche'. I lurk on some dog forums and have seen this discussed to much. It gets old.


If you want to hunt behind one, just ask someone who has one. They love to show them off.:D
 
Feasant Fever,

I love to hunt behind them... especially when you own them and you know a guy that has one as well:cool:. I am getting a lot of inquires on here about my pups. How does Friday work for you?? I got a couple of pointing labs I need to show off?? :cheers:
 
feasantfever said:
I agree, if you want a pointing dog buy an established pointing breed. I feel that the pointing lab fills a niche'. I lurk on some dog forums and have seen this discussed to much. It gets old.


If you want to hunt behind one, just ask someone who has one. They love to show them off.:D
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If it gets old then why did you seek this thread and choose to post?

I would take my PLs any day over a pointer,,,,,
 
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Get one of each like I do. Best of all worlds :thumbsup:. I think it is all preference. I enjoy hunting behind both of my dogs. When I am in the field with my dogs is all that matters to me and them.

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